Hi new to this part of AVSIM and wanted to ask what would the absolute normal takeoff flaps setting be for the Boeing 767-300ER? I’ve looked for a few times on Google but never got a definite answer. Anything would be of help. Cheers! 

5 \ 15 and 20 are validated TO flaps to ues.

In our company we only had T/O performance data for 15 and 20, so 5 is not used in most cases.

Normally, we would use 20, unless it could not met climb performance. this it also recommanded in FCTM.

But it's also up to company policy, in most cases, F15 could provide better perfoamce thus lower thrust request, saving some engine wear, so some company might go for that.

I have heard some company in europe almost exclusivly using F25 for landing, for lower the noise impact, something our company had never done in normal condition.

So, flaps 20 normally? And would the takeoff data include V speeds? 

 

37 minutes ago, UAL744 said:

So, flaps 20 normally? And would the takeoff data include V speeds? 

Ours do, basiclly one table for one runway/flaps, and the rows are different temprature and columns are wind, every cell have both MTOW for that condition and the related Vspeeds, if ATOW is lower, go up row to find the closest but larger one and find the tempture for assumed temprature, and use that speed.

It's not allowed to use FMC's Vspd, as it's based on some different calculation assumption. I heard some US carrier allowed to use, at least on 737.

Now we mostly use Onboard Perforamnce Calculator in iPad, sadly our 75/67 fleet didn't survive long enough to see that.

And did this cover the PW4000 powered -300ER? 

Well, I just checked, our 767 was 767-300 Non-ER with PW4056... so if you really want to specify to 300ER, I can't be sure.

But as I said,the "Normal" one is more comany based, while Boeing allowed to TO on 5,15 and 20 on all 757/767 model, it's up to the company or even individual crew to chose what is up to their task....

Yeah, I was specifying the -300ER, and out of curiosity how long of a runway would flaps 20 get you off of?

1 hour ago, UAL744 said:

Yeah, I was specifying the -300ER, and out of curiosity how long of a runway would flaps 20 get you off of?

As for 763 non ER and PW4060, 390Klb and 15C sea level, it's about 8000ft, while F5 would give 8600ft

But the 380Klb is limited by climb performance due to the large drag on Flap20, if you got more than 9800ft of runway, Flaps 5 could give you full 412Klb as the certificated limitation of 300ER

So yeah,Flaps 20 might not always be the best option, our non-ER already limited to 345Klb so in this case it's not matter, but still if it's on high elevation or hot days, it might still matter on non-ERs.

As has been said, this sort of thing is often very company-specific and appears in the Standard Operating Procedures manuals, where there are usually a big list of things you can and cannot do. Some of these are airport-specific too, so where you are flying to and from has a bearing on matters as well. And it's not always for entirely sound or defendable reasons either; quite often it'll be down to the preference of the actual people or person making the decision on what will be company SOP on many things, with these often relating to things such as a company's preference for economy, or for expeditious operation, or whatever.

You don't often get something for nothing, but you can get different things for your money. More flaps usually means more noise, so more fuel to overcome more drag with increased thrust, less flaps might mean less noise but more tire wear owing to faster ground speeds and so on. So here you might have a choice of increased tire wear meaning more downtime for wheel swaps, or increased fuel usage, or the possibility of fines for exceeding noise abatement rules. You will also get arguments on whether it is better to run an engine at high RPM for less time, or to run it at lower RPM for a longer time on take off rolls and climbs etc, and sometimes the answer to that one is engine-specific as well.

So unless you actually are trying to emulate a specific company's operational policy for your sim flights, you can probably just go with what you, as the captain, feel works best.

One approach is to think of the departure environment. You have the temperature, pressure altitude, runway condition, obstacles, runway length, minimum climb gradients and aircraft weight. All of these come into play and will drive flap settings if the aircraft has multiple selections. When all of these come together, there is a curve at which you will reach optimum and maximum gross weight from conditions. McDonnell Douglas mastered this with the dial a flap system. When I flew DC 10s, we had a range between 5 and 25 for takeoff flaps. That equated to 200 flap settings that could be used for takeoff. 5.2, 7.6, 9.5 and 17.8 are some examples. Other manufacturers will have multiple fixed flap settings to gain the same effect. Lets look at some things that directly impact flap settings.

Short runways will drive more flaps because they allow you to lift off the runway earlier. This will also limit your weight depending on the length. Contaminated runways will have a similar effect, minimizing weight and getting off the runway earlier. Long runways may drive less flaps because you can lift off later and take advantage of less drag from lift off to clean up/accel. Obstacles and climb gradients will drive less flaps for better climb performance. You will pitch higher for the same power setting for V2/V2 + 10 squeezing out every once of climb performance. Those two will also decrease your max weight as well. High pressure altitude will bring in that thinner air. Not only are your engines impacted, your lift takes a hit as well. High pressure altitude is the big bummer. Brake cooling issues impact reject capability and too much flaps with degraded thrust kills climb performance. In high elevation airports, you may see longer runways because you need them. It's a delicate mix in that case.

Probably more than what you wanted to know, but it should give you a mental idea of flap use. In SIM, people are not really doing a lot of performance considerations and calculations. Usually it doesn't matter until you have an engine failure and skimming that ridge by 35 feet or rejecting and stopping near the end. 

12 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

.In SIM, people are not really doing a lot of performance considerations and calculations.

It's true for realworld pilots as well, they are not performance engineer..

normally our company's pilot not bother the "Optimal" settings for max the TOW or Assumed temperature, we just select the "Normal" one, like 5 for 737 and 20 for 76/77s, only try something different if that "default" settings doesn't workout.

The consideration for that is: Lower chance for tail strike, Lower chance for over tire speed, and as 99% of the time you use the "default" setting, you do get chance to set other settings wrong after engine start, even if you have briefed it before start, and also there is chance to retact it with wrong timing,

11 minutes ago, C2615 said:

It's true for realworld pilots as well, they are not performance engineer..

normally our company's pilot not bother the "Optimal" settings for max the TOW or Assumed temperature, we just select the "Normal" one, like 5 for 737 and 20 for 76/77s, only try something different if that "default" settings doesn't workout.

The consideration for that is: Lower chance for tail strike, Lower chance for over tire speed, and as 99% of the time you use the "default" setting, you do get chance to set other settings wrong after engine start, even if you have briefed it before start, and also there is chance to retact it with wrong timing,

From my understanding, most airlines and cargo carriers have those numbers calculated through dispatch. At least that was being done when I moved from flying cargo to flying biz jets. You don't have to be a performance engineer to calculate or understand performance, it's part of your training to gain an understanding of how an aircraft performs. Even if you are not with a company that does dispatching, FMSs, FMCs and other apps will calculate that data for you. My aircraft does and we have an aircraft performance app. But, till this day, I can still pick up a performance manual and run numbers for departure within 10 minutes. When I was in the USAF, you are pretty much on your own when traveling the world and safe operation rests on your shoulders. You life depended on it. After you do it a few times, you easily get a feeling of what conditions will do to your performance. In the DC10, I could look at conditions and give you the weight and flap range that it would produce. Though I don't run numbers in the G550 or G5s, I can still look at conditions and know if I will be weight limited or not. 

All good points. And very helpful might I add, and I’d like to thank you all for these factors in flap settings. Knowing this I’ll be able to plan with ease, and I’m trying to fly by TWA procedures from a downloaded digital copy of their 767 flight manual.