Lilium looking good - first main wing transition.

[martin-w 3,235]

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by martin-w

[rka 916]

Yeah it looks good. But the breakthrough they need is on the battery problem.

[martin-w 3,235]

8 minutes ago, rka said:

Yeah it looks good. But the breakthrough they need is on the battery problem.

 

In terms of the Liliuim the battery isn't a problem, because its designed for short range air taxi stuff.

We have the Eviation Alice about to compelled its first flight with a 650 mile range, beyond that sort of range, yes, battery tech needs to improve.

Solid state is almost here of course. And hybrid designs are taking shape. 

 

[Luis Hernandez 570]

Wow.. just wow. I remember seeing it in an internal company memo (no, I don't work for Lilium, just a supplier, and here we don't make any Lilium parts), but I didn't expect it to come so soon...

Congratulations Lilium!

 

PS: knowing about all the dreaded B-52 seven-engine landing jokes, what about a 35-engine landing now? 😝

Edited June 23, 2022 by Luis Hernandez

[rka 916]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

In terms of the Liliuim the battery isn't a problem, because its designed for short range air taxi stuff.

We have the Eviation Alice about to compelled its first flight with a 650 mile range, beyond that sort of range, yes, battery tech needs to improve.

Solid state is almost here of course. And hybrid designs are taking shape. 

 

The problem is that all those are about to complete their first flight "next year" for a number of years now. I'd like to see those concepts working soon, but I don't believe it's going to happen soon.

I mean we don't even have cars with an acceptable range at normal car speeds yet. And with a plane, you always have to have reserves in case you have to divert. So 440 nmi as with the Alice isn't really impressive IMHO. Taking reserves into account, you could just drive that usable range and it probably wouldn't take you any longer considering you have to get to the airport, check in etc. otherwise.

[dave2013 1,130]

1 hour ago, rka said:

The problem is that all those are about to complete their first flight "next year" for a number of years now. I'd like to see those concepts working soon, but I don't believe it's going to happen soon.

I mean we don't even have cars with an acceptable range at normal car speeds yet. And with a plane, you always have to have reserves in case you have to divert. So 440 nmi as with the Alice isn't really impressive IMHO. Taking reserves into account, you could just drive that usable range and it probably wouldn't take you any longer considering you have to get to the airport, check in etc. otherwise.

The battery technology today is wholly inadequate to fulfill the dream of eliminating fossil fuels.  They just don't have enough energy density and don't charge fast enough.  Moreover, we would have to build hundreds of new mines in order to extract enough minerals to build the truly massive number of batteries required for every vehicle, solar panel, and wind turbine.

I support research and innovations like electric planes and cars, and believe that we should be pouring billions into battery research as well as cleaner energy production, but if we're being realistic it will take several decades before we have an all-electric vehicle and aircraft fleet.  A target of 2050-2060 would be realistic, not 2030 or 2035, and that's only if we're willing to fund the research and development which will cost a fortune.

Dave

[martin-w 3,235]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:20 PM, rka said:

The problem is that all those are about to complete their first flight "next year" for a number of years now. I'd like to see those concepts working soon, but I don't believe it's going to happen soon

 

It has happened. The Pipistrel Velis is teaching people to fly in flight schools as we speak. There are other certified electric aircraft too. 

Eviation Alice is a hairs breadth away from its maiden flight. 

[martin-w 3,235]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:16 PM, dave2013 said:

The battery technology today is wholly inadequate to fulfill the dream of eliminating fossil fuels. 

 

Err... depends what you mean by "eliminating fossil fuels". In its totality, obviously not. We obviously can't replace all aircraft, all vehicles and all ships just yet and power all homes with renewable electricity... yet.

 

On 6/23/2022 at 8:16 PM, dave2013 said:

They just don't have enough energy density and don't charge fast enough. 

 

I'm not going to answer that as it will be groundhog day again,. We have debated this numerous times with numerous counter arguments given. And this thread is about the Lilliam electric aircraft, not "replacing all fossil fuels with battery electric technology".

 

On 6/23/2022 at 8:16 PM, dave2013 said:

Moreover, we would have to build hundreds of new mines in order to extract enough minerals to build the truly massive number of batteries required for every vehicle, solar panel, and wind turbine.

 

Again, much has been typed in past threads in regard to this. Solar panels and wind turbines manufacture has nothing to do with the Lilliam aircraft test flight. So lets not retype everything we've typed before over multiple pages, all over gain. It will drive us all nuts and the thread will go bonkers and be locked. 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by martin-w

[rka 916]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

It has happened. The Pipistrel Velis is teaching people to fly in flight schools as we speak. There are other certified electric aircraft too. 

Eviation Alice is a hairs breadth away from its maiden flight. 

I didn't know the Velis, interesting! The engine and battery specs look like your can't do much more with it than short school or sightseeing flights. But still it's actually flying as it seems!

[martin-w 3,235]

20 hours ago, rka said:

I didn't know the Velis, interesting! The engine and battery specs look like your can't do much more with it than short school or sightseeing flights. But still it's actually flying as it seems!

 

Yep, the Velis is designed specifically for flight schools. Duration is about 90 minutes I recall including reserve.

The guy I'm looking forward to is Eviation Alice though, it already has numerous orders in place. Conventional take off and landing, its not an eVTOL.

https://insideevs.com/news/524833/dhl-orders-electric-planes-eviation/

What fascinates me about the eVTOL's in development is that electric motors and batteries enable some quite imaginative design concepts. Some opting for multiple ducted fans like Lilium and some multiple large props, some quad ducted fans, designers are exercising their imaginations. 

Small ducted fans are less efficient in the hover, so that a disadvantage in theory for the Lilium, but it spends a minimal amount of time in that regime, so the lack of drag from big ducted fans in the cruise more than make up for that.