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A couple minor ATC phraseology issues

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ATC normally issues vectors with headings rounded to the nearest 5 degrees, except on surveillance radar approaches (ASR/PAR).  I've never heard a center or terminal radar controller say "Fly heading 234"--it would always be "fly heading 235"

 

The "radar contact" call is only made when radar identification of the acft is first accomplished--after that, handoffs are normally acknowledged by ATC with "roger" or other instructions.  Subsequent ATC controllers won't state "radar contact" on an initial check-in after handoff from another controller as long as the acft remains under radar control.

Example: (from departure leg)
Tower: American 252, contact departure
AAL252: American 252 to departure
AAL252: Phoenix departure, American 252, at 1200 climbing to 5000
Departure: American 252, Phoenix departure, radar contact passing 1300, climb and maintain flight level 230
AAL252: flight level 230, American 252
Departure: American 252, contact Albuquerque Center 127.15
AAL252: Albuquerque on 127.15, American 252
AAL252: Albuquerque Center, American 252 with you through FL200 for FL230
ABQ Ctr: American 252, Albuquerque Center, roger
ABQ Ctr: American 252, contact Fort Worth Center, 123.25
AAL252: Ft Worth on 123.25, American 252
AAL252: Ft Worth Center, American 252 with you level at FL230
Ft Worth Ctr: American 252, Ft Worth Center, roger (if no further instructions are given) -or- American 252, Ft Worth Center, climb and maintain FL290

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

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  • Commercial Member

Bob,

You are correct.  These issues have been around a while and are actually on the slate to be fixed in the next version.

It's still undecided if the rounded headings will work well enough for vectors to final, but other, more general headings, should get rounded.  Years ago, the headings were all rounded and it resulted in criss-crossing the desired track on long vectors to final, which was unacceptable.

Dave

  • Author
On 8/28/2022 at 8:06 AM, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

It's still undecided if the rounded headings will work well enough for vectors to final, but other, more general headings, should get rounded.  Years ago, the headings were all rounded and it resulted in criss-crossing the desired track on long vectors to final, which was unacceptable.

Dave;

I wrote a program back in the FS9 days that did radar pattern vectors (and ASR/PAR surveillance approaches as well), and instead of aiming to keep the acft on a desired ground track in the radar pattern, I computed target turn points for the pattern, and as long as the computed CPA (closest point of approach) remained within a few miles of the turn point, I left things alone.  If the CPA, based on actual ground track, went outside the "bubble", then a corrected vector was issued.  This kept the controller from thrashing the pilot with far too many (and too large) heading changes, which is something I'm noticing happens with vectoring in P2ATC.  I flew an approach into Atlanta the other day and P2ATC was just bombarding me with excessively large 30-degree heading changes back-and-forth. 

Another advantage was the ability to create/use an override database that had custom turn points and a rough equivalent of an MVA at each turn point for airfields in proximity to high terrain.

I ended up shelving it because text-to-speech was really pretty underwhelming back in those days.

Regards

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

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