This Is, Hands Down, The Most Boring Video I've Ever Seen!

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Dev mode has no effect on the PMDG (or any aircraft) btw, not unless you then do something with the dev mode menu.  Slew, yes... many complex addons don't like slew.  Not sure I'd call that a bug so much as an MSFS-ism.

I wouldn't be in DEV mode if I wasn't going to be doing something, but I've been developing stuff in MSFS for 2 years. I was not doing anything abnormal, that is you assuming. I've been using FMC's in sims since FS 2004 and there is nothing out of order that is supposed to lock up ALL the key functions. You are talking like your an expert or something about dev mode states, and I bet you've barely even used it before.

Next thing you will say is I hit a wrong key which causes the brake to get perma-stuck, ok.
 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

But if you'd like, specify one of these cases that fails for you 25% of the time, and your exact workflow when trying to accomplish the task in the box, and I'll bet we can figure it out. 

There is no case, it's EXACT repetition of exactly the same way I did it before when it fails, and

The bug is documented in their own forum...
(and people wonder why most developers don't like posting to forums)
 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[mrueedi 702]

8 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I wouldn't be in DEV mode if I wasn't going to be doing something, but I've been developing stuff in MSFS for 2 years.

I am also in DEV mode a lot and I also think that this is maybe not the problem but slewing around the aircraft. I know enough of programming avionics, that I would not expect an FMS to work, if the aircraft is slewed around. If I would be PMDG, I would simply say somewhere "slew mode not supported". So, do you see the bugs also if you are just using DEV mode but not slewing the aircraft?

Edited November 2, 2022 by mrueedi

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

15 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

I am also in DEV mode a lot and I also think that this is maybe not the problem but slewing around the aircraft. I know enough of programming avionics, that I would not expect an FMS to work, if the aircraft is slewed around. If I would be PMDG, I would simply say somewhere "slew mode not supported".

I am not attempting to use the FMC in slew mode, if that is what you were thinking.

I do not believe the issue is actually with slew or dev mode, just an inherent bug that is triggered by a state change, but I am not sure what state issue may trigger avionics bug unless the coding was done incorrectly (which it was on the PMDG 737-600 and we can tell by the numerous amount of state bugs they keep patching in the past few updates, as well as the dreaded stuck brake issue). 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

When you are in dev mode there are extra windows handles and messages sent out in the message loop (in C++ GetMessage, IsDialogMsg, as a simple example), and the extra UI stuff that is created even before you do anything. It has caused issues before, like not being able to close pop-ups. There is currently another bug I believe is also caused by Dev mode, where even when you have done NOTHING in Dev mode and you just have it on, the game will sometimes spam you with objectives, even when the objectives are turned off. So the assumption that being in Dev mode and doing nothing is exactly the same as not being in Dev mode and doing nothing is not exactly correct (see 2nd paragraph). I don't believe that is the issue here necessarily, but it is a state issue (that much I know), so something is triggering it, not sure what, but I'm not going to jump to assumptions and act like I know the trigger, but hopefully they will fix it. There is also a hidden cache that only DEV mode has access to, and this cache can be problematic at times.

Now, if you've NEVER actually used any feature within Dev mode, then it is more accurate (though not 100% precise) to say it's basically the same as not being in Dev mode, because you never did anything (mostly true), but there are a few exceptions even here (such as with the window handle order, etc...). All this said, if you've opened projects and been developing heavily in Dev mode, yes Dev mode can cause issues, even after you restart the game. As I've already demonstrated prior to others, sometimes a persistent polygon issue will exist in a hidden cache even after you've restarted the game (and it only happens if you enable dev mode), and I'm sure there are plenty of other issues that it can cause. That said, I've never had it cause any CTD's at least (not in SU 10). I consider SU-10 the most stable version of the game so far, luckily they got that right.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Stearmandriver 2,332]

20 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

There is no case, it's EXACT repetition of exactly the same way I did it before when it fails, and

The bug is documented in their own forum...

Bugs are typically reproducible, so there must be a case.  And which bug is documented on their forum?  I'm curious. 

[Stearmandriver 2,332]

21 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I've been using FMC's in sims since FS 2004 an

Bolding mine, but you see the point.  In general, FMCs in sims haven't born a large resemblance to real life. The PMDG box is certainly not perfect, but we're talking minor features that are mixed up between multiple software versions... for instance, it contains a few features from U11.0 and some from U10.8.  But those aren't bugs, in the sense that they work correctly. 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

So you are saying in the real 737-600, the FMC gets stuck across the board and stops taking all entries, you cannot even enter a new origin?

All the bugs I have mentioned are in their forums by other posters, they don't tend to "officially" acknowledge or list most of the bugs until they are already fixed (sometimes they will). You said you were a pilot, not a programmer. Bugs are not always easily reproducible, though this bug has happened so many times, it should be easy enough. That is why the harder less reproducible bugs make it into the final releases. The bugs in the final releases are the least reproducible. Honestly, real life plane UI's had issues in the engineering as well, it was too much politics and too little common sense. I knew someone that worked for Boeing and worked on this stuff, and he always said it took like years just to get a decision on something due to the red tape. It went through committees and politicians and the entire company culture had issues, there was a lot of "in-fighting" if you want to call it that.
 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Ricardo41 5,959]

I started this thread to "shill" for a youtuber with a solid instructional video. 

This being avsim, the thread, somewhat predictably, turned into a handbag fight. 

🙄

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

I just find it amusing how people want to rub it in your face. That said, I haven't had issues with other planes that much with SLEW mode, so that is why I did not assume it was going in and out of SLEW (but that is likely the cause). OK, so as long as you don't use SLEW much, this plane isn't that buggy. Though it WAS buggy before the last 2 patches, and you can just read the release notes on the forum and see that. That said, I'm scared to toggle or play with switches like I do on most planes, the thing might teleport me to the moon or something.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Alpine Scenery