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RFields5421

Black Traffic models when far away (Pics) any help?

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Hey folks - I seem to be having some trouble. This is a large collection of freeware AI Packs, here is the result.Blacktraffic.jpgAs you can see, at a distance, the model textures default to all black, until you zoom in, then they change back (IE: To american airlines)Anyone know what would be causing this?

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It's a known problem with the way FSX handles AI models from previous FS'sGlenn

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I've seen this problem as well. The worse news is that there's probably a bottleneck in your graphics processing. Either simplifying the workload FSX has to chew through or adding more powerful hardware will help.I had the same problem with LiveTrafficX ,and that's what their service people told me. Come to think of it, though, they ported in a lot of older paint jobs for their models, so Glenn has a point.Jeff ShylukSenior Staff Reviewer, Avsim

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Jeff,I don't think that's true. Go to PAI or WOAI forums. It's the way FSX handles distant textures in a particular format.It's not a bottleneck of any kind. It will happen no matter how fast your system is.Extrac from a this thread on AVSIM:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=383032&page="FSX requires that all parts of an aircraft be textured. If not then they display as black. Up until FS9 we could create aircraft and for the last LOD use GMax colours (such as grey) for the fuselage. In FS9 they would display as grey, but not in FSX. The same is true for any part which was not textured via a .bmp file - shows as black in FSX.The only way that can be corrected is for each author involved to go back to their FS9 aircraft and re-texture the aircraft for the parts or LODs involved. There may not be many takers."Also see this thread at WoAI:http://www.world-of-ai.com/Forum/viewtopic...highlight=blackGlenn

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hi, i have exact the same problem, and i have 8800GTX, e6600 3.3Ghz etc. , so the problem is not related to power. i have tried many different drivers and slider settings and the problem still exists.

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FSX requires that all parts of an aircraft be textured.That's not the issue in the screen shot.The result of the untextured parts displayed as black are small sections of the aircraft which are black - not the entire aircraft.The entirely black aircraft are indications of an issue in the graphics processing - often not enough video RAM to hold all the textures, etc.One thing which helps is to avoid fleet repaints where you have several BAW A320 aircraft all with different textures - with only minor differences. Moving them to all use one texture really helps.Southwest Airlines and Ryanair are big 'offenders' in this situation.

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768 MB of memory isnt enough? who has more?8800GTX owner wants to know

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Do those aircraft display as black all the time - even when you move close to them?That's a model issue - they are always black and never change.Any temporary black models which texture after a while when the eyepoint is not moved is a graphics processing issue.(It is possible for individual models to have issues with a certain LOD not mapping correctly - but these were usually found long ago - and are visible in FS2004)Video card RAM is important - but also important how the swap file is setup, how the individual aircraft textures are done, how the main system RAM is used.Even with 768MB Video RAM it's not enough to display the screen shot above - part of the system RAM is used to cache video.Look at how your page file and video memory are being used in the performance monitor.

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"The entirely black aircraft are indications of an issue in the graphics processing - often not enough video RAM to hold all the textures, etc."Reggie,Whilst I would normally bow down to your knowledge of AI issues, I would have to say in my experience, this happens to AI aircraft at a certain distance no matter what GPU or settings you are running at.(In FSX anyway)I have turned down FSX settings to bare minimum and have limited the AI aircraft on view to 2 or 3 at a time and as I move farther away the AI aircraft will always turn black. This was not the case in FS9.Now the shot above maybe GPU starvation as you say, but it seems this condition will exisit at some point for everybody as you increase the distance between yourself and the AI.I have also tried this with a X1900XT 512mb (as well as my own X1900GT 256mb) and the problem still exsisted.Regards,Glenn

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If it is the model - then the black never goes away.If it's a certain distance - then we need to look at those specific models with ACM and the different LOD to see if an entire LOD is untextured.However, we should see the same issue in FS2004 just those same parts of the model are displayed as grey.It may be possible that having untextured areas on the model causes the GPU to run through several extra/ retry loop cycles trying to find textures - during which time the model is displayed as untextured (black) in FSX.Though personally I've only see the effect occur infrequently when I'm in a very heavy visual environment and only momentairly. Turning down the Scenery Density or Autogen gives me enough GPU to avoid the effect occuring.I also find that the effect occurs less if I have the FPS locked.

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Reggie,No problem with this in FS9. But as you quite rightly say, the model turns a grey colour as it goes into the distance.It's this sudden change from textured to black that is the problem.It isn't a problem when the model goes grey because from that distance it looks fairly normal. Black however, is very noticable.Hmmm, interesting.It's the WoAI packages that most frequent my FSX world by the way.Glenn

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when i move closer the textures on AI planes just pop on. i dont think that this is memory starvation problem at all. it happens with 8800GTX (different driver settings) and when i set the sliders to point wheres fps is 60+ and limit them to 20 fps, there is pretty much headroom for the textures to render with my crappy machine which is capable of runnin over 20 FPS in big cities like LA with 40+ aircract visible.i dont have any problems with any other game than FSX, but i just wanna play FSX.i say this is a BUG, help me.happens also with default AI, My traffic X and Traffic 2005 for FSXmy specs: 3.3 Ghz Core 2 duo, 8800GTX 768 MB, 2 GB of kingston hyper x 800Mhz 4/4/4/12, Samsung 500 GB HD 16 MB cache, 1000 watt enermax galaxy, direct x 9 drivers august release, windows XP SP2, soundblaster X-fi elito pro etc.

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this has happened for me in FSX beta, FSX RTM, FSX SP1, with amd + ati setup and now in my current setup (see above post). and i have used freshly installed WIN XP SP2. and different memory sticks and up to date drivers and not so up to date drivers. i say this is a BUG, where the patch?

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Hi Reggie,Almost all of my propliner AI have the lowest LOD untextured, and they do turn black in FSX when at a distance. My distance is luckily a little further away than in that screenshot, but they do turn black. In FS2004 they turn a light gray, which at that distance isn't very noticable.--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

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Tom,This is exactly what I was / am seeing as well.As for specific models, well I'm not at my PC right now, but it seems most of the WoAI packs have the same effect.Glenn

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Wow. Now I'm thoroughly confused. Okay...to try and narrow this down...1. The models are not always black, only when I move a certain distance away.2. I'm skeptical of a Video Memory issue, as these are relatively simple AI aircraft, and my FPS is locked at 28 and rarely dips below. - wouldn't I see a severe FPS hit if my video memory was being over-tasked?My first attempt at importing this AI from FS9 was to simply copy the Aircraft folders to FSX (In the corresponding Airplanes folder) and then copy all the 3rd party Traffic files to World/Scenery. The AI showed up, but I don't think it was interacting correctly with ATC (I didn't notice a lot of radio chatter....) However, I don't remember the models turning black, but again - that could be because I never got far enough away, I just did one quick flight around the area to test it. I'm not sure.I'm definitely thinking this could be a LOD issue, however I have this same traffic package installed in FS9 - and I don't seem to remember the models defaulting to a certain color (IE: Grey) when viewed from afar.So - I plan on A) Jumping in FS9 and seeing if the LOD issue is there too (Of a different color):( Uninstalling the traffic package from FSX using the supplied uninstaller, then manually re-adding the traffic to see if infact there is a difference.I appreciate all the responses, and I am by no means saying anyone is wrong - I'm just trying to work through it.

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Yes, I agree, this is clearly the no-texture-on-surface-then-it-is-black issue with FSX. Why they chose black, I don't know. White would probably have been a better choice. Or, really, the best choice would have been to continue to use the color that was originally assigned. But I don't know why they decided they couldn't do that anymore. Probably something to do with the lighting engine, which could also be why they chose black to avoid glow in the dark surfaces.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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thank you for the answer, thomas, well we just have to live with that.

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Anyone know if MyTraffic X Fixes this problem? (I would assume, since you have to pay for it - they use new models with all the LOD?)

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So far it looks like all the FSP Airbus aircraft have no textures at the lowest LOD.The AIA models look good so far but I've only checked about half.The EVAI models look good, along with Fernando Martinez, CDAI and DJC models.The John Murchison PAI models have no textures at lowest LOD. Many of the PAI John Rodgers models might have the main fuselage textures, but wings not textured. It varies from model to model.

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My Traffic X does not fix the problem. If anything, the problem gets worse. Their customer support told me it was a graphics memory issue, which is what I passed on as information. I still feel that graphics memory is involved as a culprit, but there may be other issues as well that are all compounded into the problem. I don't think its so much now that it's a total bottleneck, but rather some misapplication of graphics resources that are at the heart of this. My Traffic X does use a lot of different textures, and the program controls their use, not the user, so it's hard for the casual FSX sim-pilot (me) to go in an make adjustments. Worse still, many of the textures are re-used from older versions of MSFS, but there's no easy way to check to see what textures are more compatible than others. I would suspect that this problem dogs many AI aircraft providers because there are so many aircraft that need texturing in the FSX environment. Simply porting in old textures doesn't always work. As for choosing black as a default base colour... well, that's a mystery to me as well. Grey would be the best choice operationally, but I would expect planes with missing textures to be bright chroma green, as that's what I would use as the base for adding 32-bit alpha channel effects. Now that I think of it, when the textures load in slowly and the model is drawn before the texture is placed, the models are grey. So somewhere along the line the model colour gets switched from grey to black? That seems very improbable. More likely the texture is corrupted somehow, and a black texture gets painted onto a grey model. Must be a distant relative of Zaphod Beeblebrox that would paint the entire aircraft black...Jeff ShylukSenior Staff Reviewer, Avsim

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Jeff,I am convinced that it is a mdl issue. Not a gfx memory issue.If you consider that the stock FSX AI aircraft don't turn to black, and yet the FS2004/FS2002 aircraft do, then that leads me to conclude that any mdl made using the FS2002 or FS2004 gamepack will fade to black.And any mdl made using the FSX SDK mdl compiler will work great.I have so far never heard any definitive answer on it but I think that is the problem.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Just a mipmap issue which turns black on pre native FSX models ;-)Cheers,Andr

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