4 hours ago, Zylx said:

do you have to

No, I don't have to do anything, the freeware is all mine. I only sold the IPR on the payware products to LWR Inc.

I wonder, did you try disabling the "Auto - Layer" checkbox on the P4AO Scenery tab? I thought that this one controls the automatic re-arranging of the scenery. The sequence in which the scenery items are sorted are called "Layers". P4AO forces strict layer numbers on every scenery component, and I suppose that the ORBX tool only changes their sequence in the add-ons.cfg file. That could be why they disagree. Ultimately, the safest bet is to stop using the "Sync to simulator" tool and just stick to P4AO. Getting ORBX scenery in line is not dark magic or something.

The reason why I struggle with the term "problem" is that P4AO has existed for almost 10 years now. Apparently nobody ever had a problem with this conflict. I am very sure that you are not supposed to use this "sync" frequently - I somehow doubt that you are reinstalling P3D every other week? Besides, when all scenery has been properly installed in external add-on.xml packages, you don't have to do zero anything after a reinstall of the sim. 

 

Edited September 10, 2025Sep 10 by Lorby_SI

8 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

No, I don't have to do anything, the freeware is all mine. I only sold the IPR on the payware products to LWR Inc.

I wonder, did you try disabling the "Auto - Layer" checkbox on the P4AO Scenery tab? I thought that this one controls the automatic re-arranging of the scenery. The sequence in which the scenery items are sorted are called "Layers". P4AO forces strict layer numbers on every scenery component, and I suppose that the ORBX tool only changes their sequence in the add-ons.cfg file. That could be why they disagree. Ultimately, the safest bet is to stop using the "Sync to simulator" tool and just stick to P4AO. Getting ORBX scenery in line is not dark magic or something.

The reason why I struggle with the term "problem" is that P4AO has existed for almost 10 years now. Apparently nobody ever had a problem with this conflict. I am very sure that you are not supposed to use this "sync" frequently - I somehow doubt that you are reinstalling P3D every other week? Besides, when all scenery has been properly installed in external add-on.xml packages, you don't have to do zero anything after a reinstall of the sim. 

 

I never thought of trying that, it works now with the auto-layer disabled.  Thank you, I really appreciate your help.  I also noticed something else, when I disable auto-layer and save, I get a message saying the layers are not sequential.  I then noticed that multiple Orbx scenery layers use the same layer number.

For example, all of my Orbx Regional scenery is placed above my Orbx airports, but all of those entries (airports and regional scenery) use the exact same number.  Then all of the Orbx open LC entries are the same number, but the next number in sequence.  So say the Regional scenery and the airports are number 116, then all the openLC entries are number 117.  I am realizing now that while the scenery is not in a neat order, the order is still acceptable so in the end, it really doesn't matter lol.  Now that I think of it, I have not noticed any issues with the scenery layering during a flight, while having the order this way.

I realize that I did not fully explain the issue I am having well enough, so this is where I think you may be getting confused.  I do not install P3D every week, the problem happens even if I only do it once it seems, then it keeps happening every single time I click the save button, even if I move the entries manually, then will move back again by themselves, so there's no way to stop it from happening.  It keeps happening over and over with only using Central, or Sync Simulator button once.

Edited September 11, 2025Sep 11 by Zylx

I guess I should say the biggest problem is I keep thinking modern P3D is like FSX when it's not, especially when it comes to the scenery library order.  Now I am understanding, thanks again for your time.

7 hours ago, Zylx said:

I get a message saying the layers are not sequential.  I then noticed that multiple Orbx scenery layers use the same layer number.

The issue is, that the entries don't have any layer number by default. That is the deciding difference to FSX. Scenery addon packages that use add-on.xml definition files don't require a layer number. They are added to the scenery library in the sequence that they are read from the two add-on.cfg configuration files (one is in AppData\Roaming... the other is in \ProgramData\...) and the good old scenery.cfg.

• I think that ORBX Central is only manipulating the \ProgramData\....\add-on.cfg file, bringing their packages into a certain order inside, relying on the sim to read this in a certain way.
• P4AO on the other hand is assigning proper unique layer numbers to every single scenery component, thus forcing a certain sequence across scenery.cfg and the two add-on.cfg files.

That is why ORBX and P4AO disagree. I stand by what P4AO is doing though. Forcing proper layer numbers is the only deterministic way to arrive at a reliable sequence of scenery components. Everything else is just hoping that the sim will read the scenery in a certain way - unusable for a tool like P4AO.

So, naturally, when you turn automatic layering off, you can no longer move (most) scenery elements up or down, because you've disabled the logic that allows P4AO to do this in the first place.

The IMO correct way of doing this is to use Central/Sync only ONCE. Then take a screenshot of what you see when you start P4AO. Then turn auto-layer back on and then move the ORBX scenery elements into their proper positions manually. After that, do not use "sync" ever again. That is how I always did it. At some point I knew where certain ORBX components needed to go, and I never bothered with Central again (only when installing new scenery). Just the other day I had to reactivate my external ORBX library for P3D V4 - that was just a matter of adding the external library folder to the sim as an additional discovery path (usaing P4AO for this). All scenery was back in an instant, all I had to do was to adjust the layers of two handful of items. 

Edited September 11, 2025Sep 11 by Lorby_SI

16 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

The issue is, that the entries don't have any layer number by default. That is the deciding difference to FSX. Scenery addon packages that use add-on.xml definition files don't require a layer number. They are added to the scenery library in the sequence that they are read from the two add-on.cfg configuration files (one is in AppData\Roaming... the other is in \ProgramData\...) and the good old scenery.cfg.

• I think that ORBX Central is only manipulating the \ProgramData\....\add-on.cfg file, bringing their packages into a certain order inside, relying on the sim to read this in a certain way.
• P4AO on the other hand is assigning proper unique layer numbers to every single scenery component, thus forcing a certain sequence across scenery.cfg and the two add-on.cfg files.

That is why ORBX and P4AO disagree. I stand by what P4AO is doing though. Forcing proper layer numbers is the only deterministic way to arrive at a reliable sequence of scenery components. Everything else is just hoping that the sim will read the scenery in a certain way - unusable for a tool like P4AO.

So, naturally, when you turn automatic layering off, you can no longer move (most) scenery elements up or down, because you've disabled the logic that allows P4AO to do this in the first place.

The IMO correct way of doing this is to use Central/Sync only ONCE. Then take a screenshot of what you see when you start P4AO. Then turn auto-layer back on and then move the ORBX scenery elements into their proper positions manually. After that, do not use "sync" ever again. That is how I always did it. At some point I knew where certain ORBX components needed to go, and I never bothered with Central again (only when installing new scenery). Just the other day I had to reactivate my external ORBX library for P3D V4 - that was just a matter of adding the external library folder to the sim as an additional discovery path (usaing P4AO for this). All scenery was back in an instant, all I had to do was to adjust the layers of two handful of items. 

This is all very helpful information, now I really understand how it works.  I will start doing things the way you recommend and see how it goes, so far so good.  I will try all of the things you suggest.

Thanks again for your time Lorby.