Avsim, please open a payware discussion forum

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Nope... I get enough abuse here. And no Holger, I am not a paranoid either. You have been around long enough to know what I am referring to.

[n4gix 4,947]

>Hi Nick,>>nice move and sentiment - down with banners ;-)>> (then again, I have occasionally been accused of hiding the>fact that I'm a developer because I *don't* use banners, so>you never will be able to please everybody...)Well, good luck with that approach. I did just that myself for years, but utimately was told "post your banner or be banned..." Isn't it enough that I have Banns* published in the newpaper every week? :-lol So, now I'm bannered... :-hah*Banns: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Banns

[Guest Nick_N]

LOL!Its not an approach as long as I watch how I post... I never intentionally post anything that is sales pitch but the banner tends to add to the psychological aspect of that.All I want is for people to enjoy their sim.. I don

[ubersu 78]

I absolutely have to agree with your position. I think a payware forum would immediately devolve to something that would make a nuclear exchange look like a mild disagreement...DJ

[Guest]

The arrogance is all yours, including the creating of another account in violation of the rules to call the admins names...

[Guest Nick_N]

TomIn my opinion you have nothing to explain about your approach or reason for dealing with the situation the way you did. The arrogance and disrespect shown to this forum, its members and the website by a planned and considered act and then execution of such an act with the statements and posts that followed, warranted the arrogance and disrespect it got in return.There was a

[N400QW 205]

Just to add two cents to the mix...There seems to be an adversarial tone here and other FS forums with regard to commercial vs non commercial development entities.The question I have is why? Both types provide content and enhance user experience while contributing to the growth and well being of the so called "community".Absent the content development by both types the hobby cannot grow as rapidly and the "community" cannot experience the level of "realism" that it seeks.In short, it seems to us at least, that the "community" should wake up and "smell the coffee" in that both types of development entities are essential to not only growth but also the well being of the "community" at large.It might interest some to think outside the box a bit and consider that Avsim's stand on commercial advertising could simply be a normal business decision which is designed to provide incentive to commercial entities to spend a few dollars on paid advertising:-lol While Avsim is run as a not for profit organization it does not follow that they are crusaders against commercial entities. Finally, we were glad to see Tom reject the idea of a Payware Forum because these things usually take on the extremely adversarial tone that is so prevalent these days:-)

[Guest zzmikezz]

Okay, I've read most of this thread. I had not planned to post to it but now I want to.Tom Allensworth wrote "... what they are really identifying in me is a real short fuse when it comes to people who are trying to take advantage of AVSIM, our readers, or our moderators/administrators - short fuse that I have no problem with in communicating via the written word."As the recent recipient of two such rockets from Tom :) I have to say that at no time have I found Tom's policies to be unfair, nor have I found them to be unfairly enforced. Where there was error, it was mine.I will say to you all what I said to Tom just a few days ago ...xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,You have every right to be fiercely protective of the important site that has taken you so many years to build.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxFolks, we are guests here. When someone puts you up for the night, if the man of the house or his delegates say "You must take your shoes off before you enter the house, and you must leave them off", or "We insist that all guests be clean shaven", then you should not argue with them.Instead you should take your shoes off -- or take your shod feet and your unshaven beard, elsewhere."Free speech" has nothing to do with it. "Right" versus "wrong" has nothing to do with it. Sources of the revenue that allow the site to continue to operate have nothing to do with it.All that matters is that we are guests here, and the rules are to be obeyed, whether or not we like the rules and whether or not we helped make the rules.And I too have stripped everything out of my signature even though what was being mentioned was, in effect, freeware stuff. Tom has a perfect right to ask that advertising in any form be either a) paid or :( stopped.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxThose things said, the rules here are fair, and fairly enforced. They are common sense rules, much like municipal traffic laws, designed mainly to maintain well ... not necessarily peace ... but certainly law and order here on the forums. :)Wow. If it were possible for fingertips to be out of breath, mine certainly would be.

[Great Ozzie 101]

My shoes are outside the front door btw...But... can I keep the beard? :-D

[Guest zzmikezz]

I don't know about the beard, Ozzie, what do the forum rules say? And if they say nothing we then have the following problem ...In the US Army, if the regulations don't mention then you may not do it, but in the Navy you may do it.I'm more the Navy type which is why I keep getting nastygrams. :)