FSX 2D panel views

[edetroit 933]

Sorry guys I need sympathy! :-lol ..is anyone else as peed off as I am? ... I am devastated! :(http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=17431&page=

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[n4gix 4,947]

Considering that in FSX the exterior model and the interior models will be separate objects, meaning tha one can easily add the 'VC' of one particular model to act as a 'stand in' for a no-vc exterior model, I see no cause for panic.Moreover, scrapping the old 'view system' for a more flexible and extensible 'camera system' is a giant step forwards, and well worth the trivial loss of '2d static views,' IMHO. ;)

[edetroit 933]

Can one "easily" make a VC though? .... I have been given to understand this is quite difficult.:)You have upset me a little Bill.. the loss of loss of '2d static views is far from trivial to me. :)

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[Guest KC13]

Hi Ed,For me it's simple, no 2D, no FSX.

[edetroit 933]

LOL ! ..two replies! :-eek ..this is the panel design forum right :-hmmm.........oh of course! ...everyone is modelling 3D gauges for VC's :-hah

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[n4gix 4,947]

>Can one "easily" make a VC though? .... I have been given to>understand this is quite difficult.:)>>You have upset me a little Bill.. the loss of loss of '2d>static views is far from trivial to me. :)You missed my point, Ed. With the new system, you can take any appropriate model that has a VC, and use it along with the model that doesn't have a VC...Let's take a concrete example... Say you have this really nice model of a 737 that you absolutely love, but it has no virtual cockpit...The default FSX 737 of course has a virtual cockpit...So, what you do is in the model.cfg file specify to use your really, really cool 737 model for the exterior, and use the default 737's VC as the interior model!Voila! Instant happiness! You now will "see" the default 737's VC whenever you use the 2d panel's "Look Left," etc.

[n4gix 4,947]

>Hi Ed,>>For me it's simple, no 2D, no FSX.Don't misunderstand Ed's comment... He's not saying there's no 2d panel in FSX!!!His concern is that when looking Left, Right, etc. with the hat switch (or keyboard), there are no "2d static images" anymore...

[edetroit 933]

>>Can one "easily" make a VC though? .... I have been given>to>>understand this is quite difficult.:)>>>>You have upset me a little Bill.. the loss of loss of '2d>>static views is far from trivial to me. :)>>You missed my point, Ed. With the new system, you can take>any appropriate model that has a VC, and use it along>with the model that doesn't have a VC...>>Let's take a concrete example... Say you have this really>nice model of a 737 that you absolutely love, but it>has no virtual cockpit...>>The default FSX 737 of course has a virtual cockpit...>>So, what you do is in the model.cfg file specify to use your>really, really cool 737 model for the exterior, and use the>default 737's VC as the interior model!>>Voila! Instant happiness! You now will "see" the default 737's>VC whenever you use the 2d panel's "Look Left," etc.No Bill I did not miss your point.... I do not want someone elses crappy inaccurate VC ...I want my photoreal side views! :)

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[edetroit 933]

>>Hi Ed,>>>>For me it's simple, no 2D, no FSX.>>Don't misunderstand Ed's comment... He's not saying there's no>2d panel in FSX!!!>His concern is that when looking Left, Right, etc. with the hat >switch (or keyboard), there are no "2d static images" anymore...My main concern is not the side views! It is the VFR/IFR views!!!!!If I have to I will put up with some crappy inaccurate VC side views!!Ken does not misunderstand me..... he realises this means no 2D co-pilots view ...no 2D engineer's panel (that is for those who do not know ..you make the engineer's panel a right side or right side back view so you get a different interiour cockpit sound)........no overhead view (for those who do not know ..a forward up view so one can still see a bit of the runway) There is no doubt in my mind that the 2D panel views have/had not been fully explored by designers especially in the pilots perspective point of view!Again Bill you are belittling the 2D view ...for someone who is so knowledgeable I am surprised. :)

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[n4gix 4,947]

>My main concern is not the side views! It is the>VFR/IFR views!!!!!>>If I have to I will put up with some crappy inaccurate VC side>views!!>Again Bill you are belittling the 2D view ...for someone who>is so knowledgeable I am surprised. :)I'm not "belittling" anything at all, Ed. I simply know alternate ways to accomplish the things you've listed...For example, VFR/IFR panel views are easily accomplished using the panel.cfg and a main "dummy window00" that has nothing more than the outside, forward, 3d view. In fact, this technique is actually superior to any alternate, since the 'apparent horizon line' of the outside view remains fixed, meaning no there's no "jump" in the perspective when changing between the two panels.Window01 then has the "VFR Panel" configured, and Window02 has the "IFR Panel" configured.More to the point though, FSX will allow multiple panels to be configured... load the demo's CRJ and press the "W" key to see what I mean. You can have as many "alternate views" of the panel as you care to configure!There are nearly always alternate paths to accomplish one's goals; the real trick is to be open enough to accept new possibilities. :-beerchug

[edetroit 933]

>For example, VFR/IFR panel views are easily accomplished using>the panel.cfg and a main "dummy window00" that has nothing>more than the outside, forward, 3d view. In fact, this>technique is actually superior to any alternate, since the>'apparent horizon line' of the outside view remains fixed,>meaning no there's no "jump" in the perspective when changing>between the two panels.>>Window01 then has the "VFR Panel" configured, and Window02 has>the "IFR Panel" configured.>IMHO this is incorrect. I have made many IFR/VFR views and it has always been necessary to make one or t'other something other than just a forward view in order to adjust the eye point/direction to suit...to say nothing about co-pilot panels :)re: "the real trick is to be open enough to accept new possibilities"IMHO I do not think the possiblities of 2B panels have been fully explored!

regardsEdaka Capt. P[/font color]i[/font color]c[/font color]a[/font color]s[/font color]s[/font color]o[/font color]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/edetroit100/eddd2.jpgMy FS9 Videos] 2D panel lovers are gonna love FSX ...[/font color]NOT![/font color]AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 256Mb DDR Nvidia 7800 GTX PCI-E, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant[/font color

[n4gix 4,947]

>IMHO this is incorrect. I have made many IFR/VFR views>and it has always been necessary to make one or t'other>something other than just a forward view in order to adjust>the eye point/direction to suit...to say nothing about>co-pilot panels :)>>re: "the real trick is to be open enough to accept new>possibilities">>IMHO I do not think the possiblities of 2B panels have been>fully explored!To be blunt, you are mistaken, Ed. The only window these parameters affect is Window00:[Default View]X=0Y=0SIZE_X=8192SIZE_Y=3900 // note that this entry sets the lower edge "horizon line" of the outside view.Granted, this technique does not allow for the offset port/starboard that a separate 'VIEW' would allow, but in practice this is far less important than the issues of horizon line, zoom, and view angle. It's a tradeoff that seems worthwhile, IMHO. :)With respect, I am one of a handful of people worldwide that develop third-party content for FS as a full-time job... ;) Please believe me that I've spent thousands of hours "exploring" the possibilities!The following is a perfect example of what I'm speaking about:[Window Titles]Window00=Main ControlWindow01=Main PanelWindow02=Main ZoomWindow03=PFDWindow04=MFDWindow05=ElectricalWindow06=Throttle ConsoleWindow07=GPS_RadioWindow08=PreflightWindow09=CAPS ControlWindow10=StandbyWindow11=Main RightWindow12=AP PopupWindow13=CompassWindow14=DME/ADF Panel[VIEWS]VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=0,1,175,285,295,ANNUNCIATOR_PANEL,THROTTLE_PANEL,RADIO_STACK_PANEL,80,OVERHEAD_PANEL,ANNUNCIATOR2_PANEL,60,300,310,330VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=1.000VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=4.800, 0.000, 0.000//--------------------------------------------------------[Window00]Background_color=0,0,0 size_mm=1280,960window_size_ratio=1.000 position=7visible=1ident=0window_size= 1.000, 1.000window_pos= 0.000, 0.000//note,any gauges that require 'initialization' should go here. The position and size should be 0,0,2,2 to keep 'em invisible:gauge00=ESCirrusSR22!esSR22_Preflight, 0,0,2,2,AircraftEaglesoft Cirrus SR22 G2SR22preflight//--------------------------------------------------------[Window01]file=Main_Panel.bmp file_1024=Main_Panel.bmp size_mm=1280,960window_size_ratio=1.000 position=0visible=1 //used to force display panel on aircraft load!ident=1window_size= 1.000, 1.000window_pos= 0.000, 0.000gauge00=es22gauges!Annunciator, 86,496,76,264etc.//--------------------------------------------------------[Window02]file=Zoom_Mainpanel.bmp file_1024=Zoom_Mainpanel.bmp size_mm=1280,960window_size_ratio=1.000 position=0visible=0ident=175window_size= 1.000, 1.000window_pos= 0.000, 0.000gauge00=essr22avidynes!PFD, 27,426,610,485,PFD ZOOMetc.//--------------------------------------------------------[Window11]file=Right_Mainpanel.bmp file_1024=Right_Mainpanel.bmp size_mm=1280,960window_size_ratio=1.000 position=0visible=0ident=60window_size= 1.000, 1.000window_pos= 0.000, 0.000gauge00=es22gauges!battV_altcurr_Indicator, 970,638,100,99etc.By providing the appropriate hot-spots, toggling between the three "panels" is seamless, and - more to the point - the outside view's horizon, zoom and angle remain fixed.

[Guest Chuck Jodry-VJPL]

Rare are my posts to this forum but the subject has raiseda few points that stand out regarding how this transitionto FSX is going , change is going to be a constant throughoutthe history of a product and dealing with the new opportunity'srequire patience and an open mind about what can be done withthe new format , reminisce all you want about about what waspossible but get on with learning the new game.The capacity to add a new VC to any aircraft is a decided improvementas are the camera views , but what most has me drooling is the new capacity for IK bones and vertex animation and lets look overthe new ground where finally we can vector carriers , critters ,and with IK and mesh morphing no more need to use bitmap animationto portray chute deployment , wind in the wings of the hanglideror finally being able to do people figures with fluid motionand a more realistic look.The 2D panel is still there and the production of side viewswith the VC is how i do them anyway ...so i don't call it much ofa loss and for what its worth i kind of treat the 2D as a landing panel and the popups as aids for clarity and data entry anyway.If i want to find grounds for complaint i look no further thannot having a copy of the SDK and the compiler to get on with the task of making aircraft for this platform before its releaseand even that is not justified when taken in context of the limitednumber of beta testers and addon producers involved , thankfullyBill Leaming has tread the thin ice and filled in many blanks and time and constructive input will take care of the rest.PS thanks to tdragger and the ACES team for the blogs that haveallowed us to at least feel the team is listening although theyhave taken a #### of a beating around here , in spite of appearanceswe really could not do it without you . Chuck Jodry Dir VJPL Flight Lab at WestCoastATC.com

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

Hello guys. Bill, I just want to say thanks for the well put explanation of the new possibilites. I can certainly say that I can now see there is more possibilities that I realized before reading your posts. However, I cannot say I'm totally convinced that I will be happy to see photoreal 2D sideviews go, nor the ability to, as Ed said, have a 2D Engineers panel tied to REAR_RIGHT_UP with ensuing different interior sound.However, you have given me the kind of insight I believe I needed to be able to start thinking I will be able to embrace the new upcoming view system. This probably has something to do with the fact that I like VC's as well as 2D Panels. I will miss having those beautiful 2D sideviews that some people have made. But being able to use the VC from one aircraft in another is one of the things you described that I think will be a big boon, without even mentioning the other new possiblities you described. I can't tell you how many times I had wished that were possible in FS2004!At the very least, thanks a bunch for the great explanations and cheers to you all.

[Cee-Jaay 0]

From I recall of my own VC design the problem I found was that the problem wasn't so much the VC itself, rather the limited control of the position of the viewpoint.Taking the 737/757/767 arrangement as an example (and leaving performance and gauge resolution issues aside).A pilots eyeline is straight ahead (out the window, most instruments require a glance-down to bring them out of peripheral vision, something that happens subconscuiously IRL, but requires view movement button-pressing in the sim.If the VC perspective can, in FSX, be angled downward (as 2d views can be in FS9) then with the right viewpoint and zoom settings; a comparable picture 'should' be possible on screen.