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A warning... Six month old IBM Hard Drive DOA.

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Yep, I was in the word processor last Thursday night when the box did the lock-up. I knew right away what had died. Reboots yielded clean POST's but Windows would not load. Next evening I swapped out the IBM with a Maxtor and the bits n' bytes started flowing again. Sunday evening I E-mailed the vendor but still have not heard from them. With the attitude IBM has taken toward it's data storage customers lately I don't expect too much from them.Lemonade from lemons version: I now have a clean install of the OS and applications. :-lol

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Not to take issue with your statements, but MY top of the line Western Digital ATA100 80 Gig lasted 27.3 DAYS! Took me 14 days to get a replacement drive, which is just over HALF the time it had actually run :-lol6 months is just a tad better then 27 days in my humble opinion ;-)Seeing as you state you emailed the vendor, I find it rather likely that you have an OEM drive, not a retail IBM product, which you would have called up IBM and had the replacement drive shipped that day ...

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27.3 days!!! OuchGo figure... in my shop I have an old 486 EISA computer used every day for programming some of my CNC machine tools. It has a WD 350MB HD and has been running for almost 10 years.I bought the IBM at Fry's. There was no documentation (which should have been a clue right there :-doh )Regards,

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>I bought the IBM at Fry's. There was no documentation >(which should have been a clue right there :-doh ) My freind got Segate at Fry's too, and there was no ducumation or CDs that said it is included either. Maybe it's Fry's problem? (they rock though, ecpecialy on CPU&Mabo combo prices)I thought IBM is going to stop making HDs. Did I get it right or is it false information?Georgi

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IBM is getting out of the HD biz, eventough I use IBM servers, the first thing that happens upon delivery, is I yank the OEM IBM HD out and install a Quantum. For my personal "stuff" is use Maxtor or WD.Where you been hiding Georgi? :-)http://fsgateway.com/images/frank.jpgwww.FSGateway.com

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Greg, you bought the "OEM" version instead of the "Retail" version. I only buy OEMs because they are cheaper, same product without the pretty box.BTW, I am installing a couple of 80GB IBM DeskStar 120GXP drives today at work, these are fast and quiet disks. I've used the DeskStar 7200 RPM drives extensibly with relatively good results. I believe all hard drives are pretty much like the lottery but with huge odds of getting a bad one, regardless of brand and model.J. Padron---

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>Where you been hiding Georgi? :-) >>http://fsgateway.com/images/frank.jpg >www.FSGateway.com Hi Frank. I'm not able to play FS2002. In Windows XP, all games freze and I haven't found solution.(ati2dvag.dll causes it)Updated all drivers I could think off, posted various forums, no solution. I haven't seen something like this, I've been using computers for 10 years.I believe it's uncompability between ATi running on XP with Ali Magic chipset. (Soyo mabo)I installed 98SE as my 2nd OS so I can play games and there is no freezes caused my ATI, but now Santa Cruz drivers for 98 suck and they make few games freeze.I can turn off acceleration of sound, but still there is some problem with sound in FS2002 when using Santa Cruz in 98.(it's listed in MS Knowledge detabase)I will be chnaging my Mabo just in 1 week (on 7th) and I will hope that everything will work on XP and I will be back to FS2002.As you see, I posted in non FS2002 related topic...I haven't played FS for 1 month now :'(

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I agree, it's a crap shoot. But with all that is going on right now with IBM's Data Storage unit I replaced the bad drive with a new Maxtor. I may gamble somewhat with CPU, MB, Memory, sound and video technology, but I prefer to be more conservative when it comes to data storage.Regards,

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Steer clear of Maxtor and IBM- Western Digital is your best bet. I've had bad luck with Maxtor, a lot with their product, and a lot more with their customer support and RMA policies.Maxtor Bad!!!!

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>Steer clear of Maxtor and IBM- Western Digital is your best >bet. I've had bad luck with Maxtor, a lot with their >product, and a lot more with their customer support and RMA >policies. >>>Maxtor Bad!!!! :-roll Because you've had "bad luck" with Maxtor everyone else should stay away? Perhaps if you elaborated on your above statements they may actually be taken seriously... It's great when you can actually backup your opinion with facts - lends credibility to your argument ;) Max Cowgill

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Max CowgillI would agree...IBM has, in fact, had a history going all the way back to the famous "junk" AT 20 meg hard drives that they would not acknowledge as bad, but I have not heard that about Maxtor.I would be curious and interested to know if it "really" true.Bob (Lecanto, Fl)AMD, Athlon XP, 1800+MSI, K7T266 XP ProPC 2100 DDR, 1024 MBXP, Home Edition Elsa GLadiac 920, GF3/64Mb andPNY, Verto nVidia TNT 2-M64/32WD, 100 MB, 7200, Ultra 100Sound Blaster, Audigy MP3+CH Prod, VPP Yoke - Sound CardCH Prod, Pedals - Sound Card

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Well, I was having a similar issue with an IBM hard disk earlier this year - some of you might remember my help calls on this forum :-) . Last summer (must have been July or August) I bought a 40 gig IBM DTLA 305040 hard disk to be used as a "secondary" (i.e. only for data storage and "non-essential" software such as games). The primary disk was the same Samsung 15 gig HD that had been installed in my PC when I bought it about two years ago. One night I was doing a defrag on that 40 gig disk and had already proceeded to 98 or 99%. Then all of a sudden the defragger would seem to lock up, and even before I had completely realized it the disk started making "ticking" noises - much like a clock if you like. Of course I immediately went "OH NO!!!!", but after a few minutes of frenzy I got myself together again and rebooted the computer. The disk was back online again, and I figured I should start retrieving as much data as possible on the "healthy" disk and burn them on CD in multisession mode. Indeed the disk remained operational at least in a limited fashion - when transferring more than about 300 megs at once it would temporarily quit again. Well, in a long and nerve-consuming evening's session I rescued almost all my important documents, downloaded files etc. on CD and pulled the plug on the defective disk. I never really found out what had been wrong with it, though I speculate it could have been an overheating failure. Therefore, when I got a replacement disk (100 gig WD Caviar WD1000BB 7200 rpm) I purchased a twin HD cooling fan along with it in order to (hopefully) prevent another disaster like that in the future. Anyone who has been through a similar experience will hopefully agree with me that disk failures like these are no fun at all!

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I'd have to agree it's a total crap shoot. I assembled 3 machines about 3 years ago and used the IBM Deskstar 20GB 7200 rpm drives. 2 failed in the first 6 months. The third drive is in this machine.Our company bought 25 new PC clones built locally. We chose the WD 40GB ATA100 caviar drives: 5 have died in the first 3 months. Never know what yer gonna get. I guess one thing to note is the high rpm drives tend to fail faster than the 5200 rpm units.Noel

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Did you get proper licenses for the OS that came on your machines?I've never seen this happen yet!!!!

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>Did you get proper licenses for the OS that came on your >machines? >I've never seen this happen yet!!!! What does that have to do with dying machines?

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< Because you've had "bad luck" with Maxtor everyone else should stay away? Perhaps if you elaborated on your above statements they may actually be taken seriously... It's great when you can actually backup your opinion with facts - lends credibility to your argument Max Cowgill>Thanks for clearing this up, Max. I've bought or built 9 different Maxtor based systems in the past 4 years and never had a problem with any of them. Maybe this drive I bought to replace the IBM will get me? Who knows!I heard from IBM today. They advised that the problem with my HD may stem from exceeding the recommended 8 hrs./day usage they recently recommended.Jeez!!!! Unbelievable.Definition of IBM: Picture a man standing on one foot with a surprised look on his face, smoking pistol in hand, and a smoking hole in the other foot. It will be the surprised look one his face that makes you laugh.

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>I heard from IBM today. They advised that the problem with >my HD may stem from exceeding the recommended 8 hrs./day >usage they recently recommended. >>Jeez!!!! Unbelievable. >What the hell is that....you need to own 3 servers in order to operate with IBM hardrive??(And you will need somekind of automatic switcher :()Da*n...

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Uhmm, I think so. So what, you don't have three servers ready to handle your IT needs??Regards,

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>Uhmm, I think so. So what, you don't have three servers >ready to handle your IT needs?? >>Regards, Well, that means you will need 9 servers then.If that 8 hours theory was true you will need 3 times more server than now, that's what I meant.(so if you have main and backup server,(2 servers) you will now need 6 to meet 8 hours theory)Please don't statrt IT with me :(

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One of my two new IBM 120GXP DeskStar 80GB drives is bad. I spent 8.5 hours yesterday installing everything from scratch and one of the 2 disks (don't know which one yet) started to do the infamous "clicking" sound. I've been there before, they start clicking and after a few weeks they die :-grrSo much for IMB disk, I wasted too much time and energy installing those disks, Windows XP and "all" my software and now they are going back to the store :-madNow I want to get just one large disk, something like a 80-120GB 7200 rpm 8.5 ms "quiet" drive. I've read bad things about IBM and Maxtor, how about Western Digital? Can you recommend one?J. Padron (KMIA)

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When I got the drive, I had a 20 gig Quantum in the main machine, and a WD 4 gig in the other. I got the Maxtor ATA100 40 gig for editing videos (my other hobby). After 6 months of marginal performance (on boot, the controller would occasionally not detect the drive), it made the coffee grinder noise, and lost everything. I reinstalled (I had a project to do) and low and behold, with Win2000, it would crash every hour on the hour with a BSOD. I researched this crashing at Microsoft's site, assuming it was a problem with windows, but I discovered that Maxtor ATA100 drives will cause this crash, and to contact the vendor.So I went to the Maxtor site, and looked around, submitted an email to their support system, and the monkey's sent me back an email saying "install service pack 2" (duh, that's the first thing I tried). I sent an email saying that it didn't help, and they ignored me, until they sent me an email a week later saying "Since we have not heard back from you, we are assuming you have solved your problem. Please do not respond to this email..."So I gave them a call during their business hours, where the guy said: Sorry, I've never heard of that problem. Are you sure it's really occuring?" Of course, I may have believed him were it not for the dozens of reports of this occuring, and the Microsoft service bulletin, so I said: "Fine, my drive's under warranty, let me return it" No dice, I had to return it to the store, yada yada yada, looong story short, it was a huge hassle, not so much the drive, but the lousy, arrogant, unhelpful support (if you can call it support)In summary, along with this problem, Maxtor drives also suffer from overheating quite easily, a few people I know have literally toasted their drives.I agree, most drives are a gamble, but I would steer clear of IBM, and I would suggest, based on my experience, steer clear of Maxtor.'Nuff said.

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Anecdotal evidence doesn't do much for me... Perhaps if you had figures as a percent of Maxtor's users that had problems with their HDs your anecdote could be used to convey that message, but without any figures to back it up it's just the one-time experience of a single person. Going by your logic no one should buy any hardware from any company, because every company that's ever released PC hardware has had products fail on them with every product release. That's just the nature of mechanical/electrical devices. A certain rate of failure is to be expected. If not, companies would never have warranties or return policies because they'd know that 100% of their products would work from the factory and never fail on their users. As far as Maxtor's tech support goes, I don't know on that one, because I've never had to call them, but the same thing holds true with tech support as does in manufacturing. Being a Tech is one of the hardest, most frustrating jobs on the planet because you have to put up with the stupidity of others day in and day out, trying to maintain extraordinary patience and civility throughout. To put it simply, there are bad apples in every group. Max Cowgill

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Hi Max,You said:"Perhaps if you had figures as a percent of Maxtor's users that had problems with their HDs your anecdote could be used to convey that message, but without any figures to back it up it's just the one-time experience of a single person."I just have to disagree with that statement. I have been following this thread just a bit. :-)The IBM 8 Hour rule is real, documented, and shown in the IBM User [br] manuals. I believe it is expressed as a monthly number of hours rule[br] that when divided up amounts to around 8-10 hours a day.As for maxtor, companies that have problems that are more than one person, and may be many issue service bulletins. So Alas, after a quick search, here is one from Maxtor:http://www.maxtor.com/products/DiamondMax/...tins/15004.htmlNow with Quantum, I went to their website, searched For quantum drive detection problems in their knowledge base and found 25 Topics. That to me tells me that more than one person is having problems, and I tend to let Maxtor's credibility stand on this one by stating that there are WELL-DOCUMENTED problems with Maxtor Quantum drives.Here is one specific to Quantum Drives and reason #4 is that the HD failed: I don't think they print those just because only 1 person had a problem. To me that is an admission that they have had more than a few fail.http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor....fcGFnZT0z&p_li=As usual truth and evidence rules the day. :-)As for someone coming up with a percentage. Only Maxtor would know, or maybe you can provide us with a % of people with no problems. Just a thought, as It gets pretty old when non-qualified people determine that people don't have problems. That IMHO is just not a realistic viewpoint. People have problems. Happy Thursday,Joe :-wave http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Max Cowgill = Maxtor?Just kidding. I agree with you 100 percent on everything you said. Stuff fails, it's no huge problem, as long as the company is willing to replace it if it is their fault (to their credit, Maxtor has a fair RMA policy). As well, I agree being a tech is tough.All I'm saying is that better tech support would be nice, and that in my experience, I would go with WD.

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Joe, the point of my post that you responded to was to say that no manufacturer is perfect, so your counter-argument is actually in agreement with mine... Yet you represent your argument as though I have said the opposite of what you're saying, which is not true. At no point in this thread have I said "Maxtor is perfect" or "there are no problems with Maxtor drives." In fact, if you actually read my previous post you'll notice a few interesting lines in there about every manufacturer having problems with every product they've ever released. :-roll Perhaps you should go back and re-read my post... As for the whole IBM 8-hour issue, I haven't made a single comment on that in this thread yet you say "The IBM 8 Hour rule is real, documented, and shown in the IBM User manuals." as though I've disavowed this issue's existance. "It gets pretty old when non-qualified people determine that people don't have problems. That IMHO is just not a realistic viewpoint. People have problems." It gets pretty old when you infer things that I haven't said or even implied, especially when I'm saying the exact opposite! :-roll I never said mikehaska didn't have a problem with his drive, just that he shouldn't represent his own experience as the only reason people shouldn't buy Maxtor. Max Cowgill

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