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I have scoured very many postings and without success.I am trying to use ground2k4. I've printed out Ground2k4 for Beginner's tutorial and still I can't get my island to show up.I managed to get my coastline to appear with SBuilder but fell there at the same stumbling block!When is an island near land or not? It is the bit about putting landclasses at the corners of (or completely filling) an all encompasing polygon when the island is a long way from land. I presume that when an island is near land it is undercovered by the nearby land mass?I have used a screenshot of an island, I made a long time ago with Airport for Windows, as a backgound map. I then drew my poly of the island around the outline and then hid the screenshot. Finally I drew a rectangular poly around my 'island' (at N45 W45 - not near land) and it is there that I am at a loss. It is not a question of RT_M .. I have read and re-read all the documentation I can find. It's a bit like starting with gmax!!Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you.

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Don't despair, Don. There are no difficult or complicated problems in this description.Your remark about drawing a rectangular polygon around your island is not really very clear. Perhaps you could explain why you did that, as it should not be necessary.At N45 W45, in the middle of the ocean, there is only one reason why your island is not showing.I assume that you drew a Poly with (or without) shore that represents the land mass. And that you have not made any mistakes in declaring the coordinates of your project - remember that W45 is -45.You must now assign land class to that polygon. Without land classification, NO land will show.If you have created shorelines (a beach) along with your island, they will show up along the edge of what should be your island, but the land will not show up.How to assign land class? - Choose the LC icon in Ground2K4; - Click on each Area (LOD13 quadrant) where you wish to assing land class; - Assign a land class from the list: - IMPORTANT: Make sure that your land class assignments extend a few Areas out from your island. This will fill all the vertices of that quadrant without which it would not have a complete land class assignment.That should be it. If there are any problems, please post a screenshot of your Ground2K4 workspace and a step-by-step description of what you have done. This will help to understand the problem.Best regards.Luis

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>I managed to get my coastline to appear with SBuilder but fell>there at the same stumbling block!>>When is an island near land or not?To answer that, use TMFViewer (Jim - if you listen this - tried LWMViewer and it did not opened the file !!!) and open worldlc.bgl located at:C:ProgramasMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9SceneryBASESceneryLooking at W45 N45 you find that the LANDCLASS is 100 ! This number means that, indeed, the CLASS is not LAND but WATER! The number 100 is not really a WATERCLASS index! It is a flag to instruct the sim that it should use indexes from the file called worldwc.bgl.So FS looks first to worldlc.bgl and goes further to worldwc.bgl if it finds an index of 100 in the first file. You can change this operation with LWM masks.With LWM masks you can force FS to look first into the file worldwc.bgl file (I am assuming that you did not creat yet your own class BGL). LWM masks work as follows:1) LWM polygons of type WATER will force FS to look into worldwc.bgl 2) LWM polygons of type LAND will do nothing except if you placed a polygon of type WATER (lake in continent) and want to bring a smaller part back to land (island in continetal lake).Therefore what I suggest is to place several landclasses around your region of interest and use LWMs of water around it.Regards, Luis

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Just a quick thank you to Luis and Rhumbaflappy for their quick responses to my plea for help. I have not had a chance yet to try out all the suggestions but will post a reply if I am successful!

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Thank you. Light is beginning to dawn. I have now got a small island at 45 -45 with a coastline - looks very effective! One small snag is that the waves start inland and move out to sea!What I did:Made a small polygon with coastline.Applied LC 100 all over the polygon so that it was totally covered.Made the poly VTP2 with texture of fields and grass etc.Compiled by clicking on bgl button.Found the bgl's and copied them into Addon SceneryNutopiaSceneryFound the LC bgl's and copied them into AddonSceneryLandclassSceneryThe sensation of banging my head against the wall has gone and I now feel a lot more optimistic.Thank you again

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Hi, againI think you do not need to apply LC 100! The region your ate working on is LC=100, that is to say it is in the mid of ocean!Therefore I think that you did no change to the landclass! May be you are using a VTP layer number of 3 or lower, which means that the texture will be applied to the water layer.You should start by placing 4 (or more) classes of land on the vertices of a LOD13 square. That will make the LOD13 square "to be ground". If you go to the FS at this stage you will see a squared island! The trick is, now, to make LWM polygons of WATER around the the island to define its coast.Up to now you have no VTP polys neither VTP polys. For the Line (with waves) the process depends on the tool that you are using.Regards, Luis S

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Thank you all for your responses.Luis, I am getting rather confused although I am now getting an island with shorelines and waves going in the right direction.My main problem at the moment is that if I come out of 'slew' mode with my aircraft on the ground the aircraft then sinks! Why is this?I am obviously using the wrong class at some stage?Pascal, thank you for your tip about shorelines - I successfully changed the direction of the waves.

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Hi Don.Luis has already given you the correct advice.Why did you apply a landclass of 100? That landclass has the characteristics of water! That's why your plane is sinking. The entire earth is covered by landclass. 2/3 of the earth is covered with value 100 ( which is water ). Look at the worldlc.bgl with TMFViewer. It will show all the world's default landclass. I assure you, 45,-45 is value 100. That value needs to be changed if you want solid land.Apply a different landclass number generously surrounding your island... how about #7? Your LWM masking should then define where you want the new land type applied.Get rid of the VTP2 poly you made as grass... it's unneeded, and is only confusing you further.Dick

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Hello Don,Don't worry too much - this is just typical beginner's confusion, but it can easily be cleared up.Here is all that you need to do to draw an island (or any land mass): - Select new polygon; - Click to draw the first point; - in the Properties window, choose either Poly with shore (if you want a beach all the way around the island) or Poly without shore; - on the same tab, under Type_Poly, make sure to select LWM Poly; - on the LWM tab, select Land; - if you have chosen Poly with shore, go to the Lines tab and choose the type of beach, its width and layer. Also, select Land on the right, and make sure to draw your polygon in such a way that land is on the right. This will ensure that the wave effects are on the correct side; - click OK (DO NOT choose a VTP2 Poly and do not go to that tab!); - finish drawing your island; - assign land classification values to your polygon using the LC icon on the toolbar. Click on each Area (LOD13 quadrant) and assign a land class value of your choice. Make sure to extend the land class assignments a few quadrants out from your island in order to ensure full coverage.That is it! Do not try anything else for the moment, as it will probably just confuse you. There are other ways to draw land masses (Luis de Sa mentioned another), but the above method is the simplest and will always give you good results.Best regards.Luis

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>Your remark about drawing a rectangular polygon around your>island is not really very clear. Perhaps you could explain why>you did that, as it should not be necessary.>Luis>>Luis In reply to your query as to why I was doing the above, I am pasting in the note from 'Ground2K for Beginners'******Note: If your project consists of a coast that is far offshore from the default coast or if it is land in the middle of water (for example, an island), you may find that nothing will show up in Flight Simulator. The reason is that land must first be declared in an Area and then a land class value assigned to it for it to appear.To remedy this, you should create an LWM polygon encompassing all that you want as land. Then, choose the Land Class icon and assign a land class value to the respective Areas. ******I think that I have probably misinterpreted this in hindsight but never-the-less that was the reason for me wrongly doing what I described.

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Very sorry, Don. That phrase is most definitely confusing, as are, no doubt, other parts of the guide. It should all be rewritten more clearly and simply. My apologies.To make an island, or any land mass, all you have to do is: - draw the polygon; - declare it as a Land Mask (LWM - Land); - assign land classification values.It is all simple, as you can see. The confusion initially arose a few years ago because people would draw their island and get no land displayed. That is why I tried to emphasize that land class assignments are essential.Best regards.Luis

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Hello Luis, Thanks again for your time and trouble but regretfully all I get is the shore line! I printed out your instructions and followed them faithfully. I note that I have nutopia_3.bgl and a nutopia_9.bgl but I do not have a nutopia_5.bgl. Is that significant? I see, too, that I have 4 files of the LC_035_015.bgl form which I have put in the Landclassscenery folder? I ask because when I have produced land and do see three bgl's I know I am jumping ahead but when I succeed as I will eventually, will I be able to add further polygons on top of the base polygon in order to vary the gound patterns? I look forward to hearing from you.

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You seem to still have a land class problem, Don. The shoreline appears correctly, but the island does not. This is because land class has not been assigned as needed.This is a typical and very common problem, but easy to remedy. - first, get rid of those four land class bgls that are lying about; - select the LC icon on the toolbar; - click on each quadrant in order to bring up the land class assignment window; - choose the land class that you want to assign there; - continue to assign land class until you have covered your island; - VERY IMPORTANT: you MUST extend the land class assignments beyond the limits of your island. Assign land class all around your island for about 2 or 3 quadrants out. This is extremely important and if you don't do this, land class will not be assigned correctly.That is it.As for adding different polygons on top of your island (each one having a different ground texture), this is quite possible and very good design technique. Just draw the polygon, declare it as VTP2-Poly, and go to the VTP2 tab where you can choose the ground texture that you desire.Best regards.Luis

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Thanks again Luis, I shall keep on trying. I thnk I need to go back to basics and resetup all my Addon folders and add the necessary items to the fs9 library entries.

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Hello Luis,I am getting rather desperate now. I don't seem to be making any progress. I am attaching a jpeg to show what I am getting.Can you possibly answer the following questions, please?Do I need to tick the 'Use .raw general file' ?Do I need to tick the 'Update .raw general fileText Box - must this contain an entry?With what I am doing here, there is nothing but sea, do I need an exclude file?What textures are used by Landclass?Finally, I call my topic 'Utopia' (I'm still searching for it!)What textures should be in the Utopiatexture folder?I do not want to abandon this - I am keen to learn more about it.Many thanks for your past help and hope that you will be able to help me surmount this difficult? stage.

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>I am getting rather desperate now. I don't seem to be>making any progress. I am attaching a jpeg to show what I>am getting.Hello DonAt some stage a light will come! Luis Felizardo will certainly clarify your questions! Examining your picture it looks like you placed several landclass squares which is OK! In order to define the contour of your island you should draw one (or more) LWM polygon of water around it. May be the following picture speaks better than me. It shows 2 small islands and yellow is water. Points 18 & 27, 19 & 26, 5 & 11 and 4 & 12 should coincide!http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99191.gifKind Regards, Luis S

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Hello Don,Fascinating results! Quite out of the ordinary. Many thanks for bringing this up, as we do not often get such brainteasers.I seem to remember that, a year ago or so, someone else tried to create an island at these coordinates and got the same results. It is all fuzzy and I do not remember it very well (put it down to creeping senility - it happens even to the best of us, and I am probably not one of those!), anyway, I think that Dick Ludowise had a look at that, but don't quite remember the results.I do not ever test somebody else's projects - too much to do on my own - but this is interesting, so I tried to reproduce your project and got the same thing! Land, land everywhere, and not a drop of whiskey (I mean water) to be had. Looks pretty bad.But, we can get around the problem with just a little ingenuity.I shall resume the steps that you have taken, for anyone else that may be reading this.1. Here is the Ground2K4 workspace - total desolation out in the Grand Banks!;http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99260.jpg2. Start drawing a new polygon and the Properties window pops up. Select "Poly with shore", and "LWM Poly";http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99261.jpg3. On the Lines tab, choose your beach, the width and layer, and select "Land on the right";http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99262.jpg4. On the LWM tab, select "Land";http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99263.jpg5. Finish drawing your island and this is how it looks. I call it my little Jigsaw piece (or it could be a doughboy);http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99264.jpgTo be continued...

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6. Select the LC (land class, not "Landclass") icon and blanket your island in land class values. Even this is probably not enough coverage, but we shall see that in FS. This is as far as you got;http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99265.jpg7. Yikes! What happenned? It seems as if islands should not be drawn at these coordinates. Maybe the fisherman's union is opposed to this or something.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99266.jpg8. Back to the drawing board. We shall go back to Ground2K4 and draw a WATER mask all the way around the island to cover the extra land. Normally, there would be no need for this, and if you decide to draw your island closer to that green and pleasant land that is England, you should not have this problem. This Water Mask will automatically appear under the island, and will not cover it.Make sure to start drawing the new polygon out beyond the island, even out beyond the land class assignments.You will get the Properties window. Choose "Poly without shore" and "LWM Poly";http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99267.jpg9. On the LWM tab, choose "Water";http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99268.jpg10. Notice how the new polygon covers a very large area around the island. This is so as to cover all the extra land.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99269.jpgTo be continued...

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11. Check that your polygon is large enough by turning on the land class textures (the "Show/Hide textures" icon, next to the LC icon);http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99270.jpg12. Looks all right. So, generate the bgls (4 land class bgls for me, just like you, plus a couple of others) and here is what we get:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/99271.jpgHaha. I laugh at the problems. Nothing is beyond us. We can make the world over to our desires. Place Jigsaw pieces and doughboys everywhere!By the way, you could probably open a pub on this island catering to all those bored fishermen, and make a pile of cash!And now, your questions. 1. In the guide, in the section "Create a new Project", you will find:"in the Land Class and Water Class section (LC and WC);- check

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>It is basically the same as I have shown you, except that our>is a little simpler. Luis de S

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Just an addendum for those, who like Don, wish to create a fictional island somewhere in the middle of the ocean.The Flight Simulator world is one gigantic Land Mask. You might think that you are flying over water, but, in fact, it is all land. Land with a land class value of 100 that displays... water! But, it is still a Land Mask.The only Water Masks in FS are rivers and lakes. Also, the areas right off the default coasts are Water Fills.So, when you assign land class values to your new polygon, you will get those square land masses just like Don. Because, of course, it is all already land, and there is no Water Mask to block out the extra, off-coast land.The solution is simple, as you can see. Just draw a very large Water Mask (or Fill with Water, but, in Ground2K4, this is the same thing) and then create your island. Since your island will be surrounded by an underlying Water Mask, all land class assignments will now end at the coast.Or, only create new islands close to the existing default coasts, where the Water Fills will block out any extra land.I should have realized the problem when Don proposed to create his island way out there in the "water". But, we are all so busy correcting the default coasts that it just never occurred to me. This problem never comes up in the vicinity of a coast. My apologies to Don.Luis de S

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Hi.> Jim - if you listen this - tried LWMViewer and it did not opened> the file !!!Yep, listening :) If you just open one of the world[wl]c.bgl files, nothing gets displayed. It needs something to display it *on* - mesh for landclass, LWMs for waterclass. It's slightly different to TMFViewer there.Come to think of it, that should be much easier to work round now...JK

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