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FaxCap

Texture Display Dilemma with CYVR

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This problem has beset me since version 3.0 of my Vancouver International Airport scenery. I posted this on the design forums at both AVSIM and FlightSim under the Subject: "Sporadic Texture Display at CYVR", back in July 2004. There were no substantiated resolutions based on results but I received several suggestions but none resolved the problem. So I gave up and decided to live with the problem.I have recently uploaded version 4.2, and I am creating a fix to improve its frame rate performance, but this buggy texture really bugs me and I want to fix it!The textures at the west and east ends of the large Air Canada hangar near the threshold of 26R, appear sometimes and not other times when they are a grey fuzz. This can vary from view to view and boot to boot. Those are the ends that have a large Air Canada logo and a row of windows. I have multi-checked my texture files and they appear in order, and (I think) they were created in the same manner as my other custom textures. They are in extended bmp format and I have even tried converting them to DXT format without success. I use PaintShopPro7. The multi-component building was created with NovaSim and there is no problem with textures displaying properly on any of the other hangar faces.I have tried it on other computers with different video cards and the problem still occurs.However, subsequently I did find out that if I zoomed right in on the offending texture then hit the backspace key, the logo and windows would appear correctly. But if I changed views and came back, the textures were fuzzy and grey again.So I have just recreated the wall texture using another background, and copied the window strip and Air Canada logo in as separate layers then merged, changed to 8bit/256x256, then converted to extended bit format. I still have the same problem.Next I created the Air Canada logo and window strip as individual panels using NovaSim

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This problem has beset me since version 3.0 of my Vancouver International Airport scenery. I posted this on the design forums at both AVSIM and FlightSim under the Subject: "Sporadic Texture Display at CYVR", back in July 2004. There were no substantiated resolutions based on results but I received several suggestions but none resolved the problem. So I gave up and decided to live with the problem.I have recently uploaded version 4.2, and I am creating a fix to improve its frame rate performance, but this buggy texture really bugs me and I want to fix it!The textures at the west and east ends of the large Air Canada hangar near the threshold of 26R, appear sometimes and not other times when they are a grey fuzz. This can vary from view to view and boot to boot. Those are the ends that have a large Air Canada logo and a row of windows. I have multi-checked my texture files and they appear in order, and (I think) they were created in the same manner as my other custom textures. They are in extended bmp format and I have even tried converting them to DXT format without success. I use PaintShopPro7. The multi-component building was created with NovaSim and there is no problem with textures displaying properly on any of the other hangar faces.I have tried it on other computers with different video cards and the problem still occurs.However, subsequently I did find out that if I zoomed right in on the offending texture then hit the backspace key, the logo and windows would appear correctly. But if I changed views and came back, the textures were fuzzy and grey again.So I have just recreated the wall texture using another background, and copied the window strip and Air Canada logo in as separate layers then merged, changed to 8bit/256x256, then converted to extended bit format. I still have the same problem.Next I created the Air Canada logo and window strip as individual panels using NovaSim

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Nigel, this sound EXACTLY like something that Mike Stone was relating. This was the topic of a discussion that started when I asked about this being the case on a particular plane (an AI low poly IL-76 which I made many repaints for) on the wheels...and i was being confounded that regardless of which texture I tried, regardless of which texture mode (8 bit, 32 bit, DXT-3 didn't matter). I then encountered the same issue on an AI DO323, but this time it was the entire tail display, which sucks...too bad because I love the plane and the model!Anyway Mike explained that it was the model!Although it affects the textures...the CAUSE is a known bug in the 3d modeling software! Mike's solution, once the condition is detected on the particular model, is to make the offending poly extraordinarily small, virtually invisible, that way the rest of the model will display the textures properly, consistently.By the way, I love your work, I'm a former Richmond boy myself, worked for a year at the Esso Avitat, and been to the Flying Beaver too many times to count! I now live in Surrey, saw the water bombers hitting the Burns Bog (appropriately named, don't you agree!?) a few months ago...very impressive, helos, fixed wings, small and heavy all operating in concert...I'm currently using Version 4.1 or 4.2 (can't recall which one, but definitely version 4), Pentium 4 2.2ghz, 768megs ram, Radeon 9800Pro 256megs...to get decent frame rates I had to ditch the gates, the fences, Iona outflow, some of the buildings and so on...but it still looks WAY better than it did in default!Your efforts...are MUCH appreciated, believe me!PM me if you would like help with stuff for your next version...I may help out with either pictures or descriptions...I'm currently trying to get a new AI S-76 sorted out so that Helijet can be properly represented with AI flights!

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Hi RickThx for your response and I am pleased you like my CYVR; however you will like even better the scenery(payware) of the Lower Mainland currently under preparation by Jon Patch and Holger Sandmann - screen shots have been posted on the AVSIM and FlightSim forums. You must have a hard time with frame rates with your equipment, it is getting a bit behind! I will be issueing a fix on fps shortly which gives about 4-5fps increase, not much but every little bit helps when you don't have much.I did a search on various forums for the discussion you referred to under Stone, IL-76, etc but could not pull anything up. Mike Stone's forum is closed so I can no longer get anything from there. Do you have any further info?I don't quite understand the explanation, I am not specifically creating polygons in the design of my building, they are all complete objects within the NovaSim program. And it is only one building I am having this problem with.Incidently, I have a flightsim club operating at the West Van Seniors Centre the second Friday of the month at 1pm, and all are welcome. The next one's date has changed it is November 25 at 1pm.regardsNigel

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Hi Nigel,Fuzzy textures can occur when makemdl does not calculate the LOD mipmap transition distances correctly. That may be your problem.If it is, fortunately Arno has created a special tool to tweak your 0_asm file to fix this. It's called CorrectTexScale. I don't see it in the downloads at SceneryDesign.org, but I suggest you post a query there to find it.And thanks for the kind words about the Vancouver project, we're in the home stretch now.Jon

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Sorry, I think I slightly confused things...I was painting an IL-76 made by some Russian dude (I think), but had been hanging out at the Mike Stone forums, when they were up (he only shut them down two weeks ago or so). I asked about it in a general way, and he explained that it was a common bug, he'd encountered it many times, and figured that if he edited the offending poly/face or whatever, to be REALLY small, it's kind of a workaround more than anything. But...if you didn't make the model yourself...maybe we need to make a new model for this hangar of yours.I wish that Mike had at least left the forum available as an archive, but I bet there were reasons that may not have been viable, and I support the guy regardless!From the description given by Jon, it sounds like the same bug, explained in a different more technical way.A frame increase would be awesome!Any chance to have Helijet edited a bit? Like having three pads instead of two, and more ramp space there? I know when I went to refuel them in real life, there was enough space for 5 S-76's and my heavy fuel truck, plus some smaller birds like their R22, twinstars and 206's!Also, over by Penta Aviation and also Esso Avitat, there usually was one helicopter trailer-pad at each, so they could land on those and then be towed into hangar.I also know that the southern Air Canada hangar doors are very often open, like at least 60% of the time...I know too that the guys at Hovercontrol have figured out a way (maybe someone else did it first but anyway) to have hangar doors automatically open when you get close to it. Probably overkill for little gain...but figured i'd mention it!

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Arno Gerretsen over at Scenerydesign.org has resolved the problem for me, it came down to some erroneous code entries for texture width in the API file. This is what he said:"In the texture list you find a line like the one shown below for each texture:Code: 6 ff 255 255 255 0 [ 0.3 * %4 ] cahangs1w.bmp256 ff 255 255 255 0 [ 0.3 * %4 ] cahangs1w_lm.bmpThe parameter before the texture name sets its size. The code looks a bit weird with the %4, but that is to scale the size when you scale the object. So in this example the 0.3 is the size of the total texture in meters when scale 1 is used.I think you should be able to spot the textures of your hangar in this list and then increase the size for them a bit. So remember how big the hangar is and how often you repeat the texture, then you should be able to guess the scale quite nicely. But 0.3 seems a bit low to me.__________________Arno"I changed the 0.3 to 109.73, which was the same as the parameter for the texture for my other Air Canada hangar wall, which was about the same length as the wall of the culprit Air Canada hangar where the textures were not displaying.And it worked!The pity is that there are not many people out there like Arno who could have analysed that situation and know what to look for, which makes me feel pretty helpless! Any SCASM notes that I have picked up have not referred to the texture entries.Hope this info is of value to others.NigelVancouverps Rick if you post your e-mail I will send you the latest copy of the fps fix which will also incorporate this texture fix.pps Rick if you want to change the aprons etc, you can do it all in AFCAD, for your own needs.

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>I am pleased you like my CYVR; >however you will like even better the scenery(payware) of the>Lower Mainland currently under preparation by Jon Patch and>Holger Sandmann - screen shots have been posted on the AVSIM>and FlightSim forums. There is also a CYVR package being worked on by a young fellow who is getting quite a name for himself in scenery design. Sounds like it will blend right in with Jon & Holger's work.FaxCap

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Hi FaxCap,Vauchez's upcoming work (for CYVR) is part of the same V200x series, as you're probably aware. Jon

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Oh, thank you!rickd99 at gmail dot comObviously the "at" and "dot" are actually ampersand and dot...darn web crawlers...

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>Vauchez's upcoming work (for CYVR) is part of the same V200x>series, as you're probably aware. >JonAm I reading this right....one price will get your GVRD scenery ANDVauchez's CYVR? Where can I keep more up to date on this, Jon?I see the link on your site but that's just pics.....I'm droolin' here, Jon....have a heart! :-)FaxCap

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Gosh no, FaxCap, sorry but we'd have a hard time feeding our gerbils if we did that!V200x is part of a series of products, connected but sold separately. The first product is the one we've been discussing, the second is CYVR.It is soon time we released more info, I agree. More screenshots are coming too.Jon

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>Gosh no, FaxCap, sorry but we'd have a hard time feeding our>gerbils if we did that!I completley understand! :-) I always buy myself a "computer/FlightSim"Xmas gift...will I be able to spend that money on your GVRD scenery?Hint Hint....will it be out BEFORE Xmas? :-)>V200x is part of a series of products, connected but sold>separately. The first product is the one we've been>discussing, the second is CYVR.Can you tell me what's planned after your GVRD and Vauchez's CYVR goodies?Does young Vauchez have a web site? Or does he hang around a forum?FaxCap

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>Fuzzy textures can occur when makemdl does not calculate the>LOD mipmap transition distances correctly. That may be your>problem.>>If it is, fortunately Arno has created a special tool to tweak>your 0_asm file to fix this. It's called CorrectTexScale. I>don't see it in the downloads at SceneryDesign.org, but I>suggest you post a query there to find it.So this might be the answer to a small problem I have with a tweakof an airport.I added a radar tower which I felt didn't look right sitting on grass.I placed a small ground poly under it's base. It seems no matter whattexture I chose the ground poly looks terrible. All the textures areblurry...almost like they have been enlarged to the point ofbeing pixalated.FaxCap

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Hi FaxCap,Great questions!It's up to the distributor (FSAddon) to announce release dates, but if I were looking for a Christmas present, I'd keep that wallet handy.;-) One of things I like about FSAddon is that they wait until release dates are solid before making an announcement.Other products in the series are "unannounced", in keeping with our emphasis on teasing! Seriously, we have some pretty solid ideas, but components may be added/deleted and we want to ensure that whatever we announce matches what we deliver.Vauchez's products to date are available under his own brand. Take a peak at www.flightscenery.com. You can see screenshots of the Rhode Island product, and in the KPDX development forum see some shots of the Portland product. His work speaks for itself. The CYVR product will be an FSAddon product.JonP.S. And let me add that the scope of the Vancouver product is much larger than the GVRD (Greater Vancouver Regional District). It includes the Fraser Canyon, Howe Sound, Whistler and all the area in between. 30,000 square km in total.

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