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Art_P

Alternate Runway Selection

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I there anything that can be used to get FSX ATC to recognize an alternate runway? ATC will not recognize one of the open runways at a stock airport, even if the wind is blowing directly down it at 20k. Is there anything in ADE for this?ArtBiostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce 8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitor

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>I there anything that can be used to get FSX ATC to recognize>an alternate runway? ATC will not recognize one of the open>runways at a stock airport, even if the wind is blowing>directly down it at 20k. Is there anything in ADE for this?>>Art>>Biostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce>8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home>Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitorArtJim Vile is the best person to answer this. The latest version of ADE provides partial automation of his cross wind runway technique. I think this may be what you are after but I am not the expert here.

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>Jim Vile is the best person to answer this. The latest version of ADE provides partial automation of his cross wind runway technique. I think this may be what you are after but I am not the expert here.

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Art FSX will change active runways if winds are changed. In some cases just changing the winds when FSX is running is not enough. You have to reload the wind change before ATIS sees the change. They way we do that is, after you change the winds open the dropdown menu World|Map and change the heading by one degree. This will force a reload of FSX so the wind and runway are now active.The other work around is to make both runway always active using the Xwind technique. ADE does most of the work for you. There is a post on the ADE forum that explains the procedure.Hope this helps.

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Thanks Jim. I love what you guys are doing with ADE.I'm thinking that my request cannot be solved with Xwind technique or changing anything in FSX. I'm talking specifically about KDAB, which has runways 7L/25R, 7R/25L and 16/34. If the wind is blowing 30 knots from 160 degrees, ATC will assign takeoff or landing to runway 7L or 7R depending on the aircraft size. Runway 16/34 doesn't seem to be recognized, period. Can anything be done to the airport file to change this? In the original file displayed with ADE and the ADE generated file I am using, everything seems to be in order.I have copied instructions on Xwind for FS9 and AFCAD from forum threads, but it doesn't seem to me to be applicable in this instance, and if it is, I can't understand how to implement. ArtBiostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce 8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitor

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ArtThe problem with KDAB is that RWY 16/34 is less then 6500 ft.(6013). What that means is RWY 7L/25R is the Primary Takeoff /Landing runway based on winds at less the 38 Kts.When any runway is less then 6500 ft and a longer runway with a ILS exist then FSX will always prefer the longer runway. This is so any type large Jet will not use the shorter 16/34 which is less then 6500 ft and is also a visual runway. Now there is a relationship between length and wind speed. If you increase the wind speed to 38 Kts and set wind direction to 160 or 340 the 16/34 becomes the active runway for all planes. However that is not realistic.Here is the fix for KDAB with any wind setting. I tested at 070 and 160 degress at 2 Kt speed.We crosswind runway 16/34 to 7L/25R using ADE. All Jets (parked at Gates) that have a Empty Weight of 74,000 lbs will takeoff and arrive on 7L/25R because it has a ILS and is longer then 6500 ft.All the GA Planes will now be told to use 16/34 for takeoff based on the fact that they park closest to that runway. A few of the GA based on parking will also use 7R/25L for takeoff.Any GA Plane arriving VFR will use either 16/34 or 7R/25L. Any GA Plane arriving IFR will arrive on 7L/25R because it has the ILS and 25 has a http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5781/cw0ol6.jpg[/img][/url]

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Fantastic! I had done exactly what you are showing using ADE, except I didn't sort to get the listing in the proper order. Actually, I didn't know that the list could be sorted until you indicated the drag method.Just for interest sake, during my efforts I tried making runway 16/34 longer (no affect) and making runway 07L/25R shorter. When attempting to shorten runway 07L/25R, ADE crashed with the attached error message whenever I clicked on OK in the runway edit window. So instead, I omitted the runway (16/34 then became active). The crashing is no longer occurring, and ADE won't let me omit the runway without first omitting the ILS. How I previously omitted the runway without omitting the ILS, I don't know.The crosswind method is really a valuable tool. Thank you for developing it and explaining it to me.ArtBiostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce 8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitorhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/188520.jpg

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Everything seems to have a tradeoff. Now at KDAB, runway 16 is favored for GA traffic regardless of wind direction. Considering that there was no GA parking near runway 07L, I added some. Now runways 34 and 25R are favored depending on the parking location, again regardless of wind direction. In fact, ATC has aircraft taking off downwind. Regarding heavy IFR aircraft using the ILS runway, this is true except GA aircraft land on the crossing runway 16 at the same time. Also, ATIS is effected in that all of the fake runways are listed as active so the message goes on forever.On the plus side, if ATC assigns you a runway with a crosswind, you can request the runway that crosses (not previously possible). However, if ATC assigns a downwind runway, the reciprocal is not a valid choice. I'm certainly glad Microsoft didn't design real world ATC software, or did they? ArtBiostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce 8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitor

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ArtWith every trick we use there is a downside. KDAB to start off with is different internal then lets say KJAX.ATIS is one of the downsides to Xwind. I have always said and I will continue to say regardless of what ACES tells us, what they can do and what we can do is 2 different things.ACES can add a runway to the airport and then close it. ATIS will not acknowledge that runway. We on the other hand add a runway and close it and ATIS acknowledges the runway in the string of words.Another downside is a airport that has 2 runways Xwind which intersect at 90 degrees. This is the worst case senario. We are faking a runway code to make 16/34 think it is parallel to 07/25. The last runway in the sort list is the prevailing wind runway. I used the 7/25 as the last one. When the winds start to shift away from a heading of 07 or 25 this can cause 16/34 to end up being used for takeoff and landing with the wind instead of against the wind.Two runways within 45 degrees of each other is the ideal Xwind setup senario. Anything past 45 degrees like KDAB and it adds additional downsides. You cannot have runway 07 and 34 active at the same time or 25 and 16. Each Xwind runway pairs with the base end 07 to 16 and 25 to 34.In the end you have to decide is the Xwind worth it or not. If you go up and Xwind KJAX it works much better because of the runway angle heading difference then a airport like KDAB.You can change the sort order of the runway list and get different results. Example. place 16/34 last and the 07/25's first. That way 16/34 is the prevailing decision runway for the 7/25's.Always remember that the fake runways must always nest between to default runways for Xwind to be active.

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"We are faking a runway code to make 16/34 think it is parallel to 07/25."That explains a lot. With a 24 knot wind blowing from 275 degrees, I was assigned runway 34 for takeoff. However, I was able to request runway 25R. After flying around, I requested landing while north of the airport and was assigned runway 16 for landing (?). This was while another plane was doing touch-and-gos on runway 34, so I checked for alternates. The only other runway selections allowed were 7L and 7R (downwind), so I accepted runway 16 and almost crashed headon with the the plane taking off from runway 34.You can't say it isn't more interesting this way. Anyway, it's been fun playing around with it, and again I thank you for it Jim.ArtBiostar TF560-A2+, Athlon 64X2-6000+, 4GB RAM, Geforce 8800GTS-320MB, 500W PSU, 250GB HD, FSX (SP1-SP2), Vista Home Premium 32 bit, CH Yoke & Pedals, 22" WS LCD monitor

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