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Hans_Petter

Moving some pixels

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I'm still playing with my interpretation of the Baron cockpit. Here's an unfinished front right quarter view bitmap, reduced to 50% and converted to a JPG for uploading. The whole idea is to get the correct view from the pilot's seat.best regards,Hans Petter

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Don't know for sure, 'cos I've never sat ina real one, but does that wing look too high ? Looks to me like it has an acute dyhedral angle.Otherwise, looks good....Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

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Exactly the kind of feedback that I want :-)The Baron does have a positive dihedral (upward-tilted wing) but the question is how much. All the parts have been collected from photos of real Baron cockpits but the right front quarter view is tricky since I don't have a photo from the left seat. However, all the shots that I've collected portray a more positive dihedral than the default FU3 wing views. You may also compare our default Piper with Steve's / Dreamfleet's Piper and you'll see a more positive dihedral. It may seem that Looking Glass made the wings a bit too "flat".Anyway, the Baron came in a lot of versions, with different cockpit interiors and panel lay-outs. I've settled for a pressurized version since the standard has been made very well by Kiwi. Well, "settled for" may be an exaggeration -- I'm trying to be consistent in picking the aspects typical of the pressurized version, based on innumerous images, gleefully scooped from various "for sale" websites :-) The problem with real cockpit photos is to find one taken from the pilot's seat looking (quarter view) right. Photos tend to come in two categories:1) Images taken from the outside through an open door to show the pretty interior2) Scenic shots taken during flight, inadvertently showing some of the interior and the wings.What's really needed for making a flightsim cockpit is to sit in the pilot's seat of a real Baron and take photos in all direction. Well, actually not all direction but rather straight left, front left, front, front right and right. Dreamfleet did just that to get the Archer bitmaps.best regards,Hans Petter

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Hans Petter,I know where you are coming from. 'Flight Sim' shots are quite rare to find from within real aircraft. My only suggestion is that you ask someone to take those specific shots for you. I have a suggestion :-I recently got hold of a copy of ProPilot 99 (which is also a nice sim) and there is a guy called Ed Weber (aka tallpilot) over at the avsim PP99 forum who loves PP99 and flies a Baron in real life. I know he has posted pictures of it in the past. Perhaps you could introduce yourself and kindly ask if he has any interior shots of his aircraft (or even if he would consider taking some) for the benefit of all flight simmers ?Just a thought...Chris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)PS. If tallpilot reads this, I hope he don't mind me mentioning him!!

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Hans, Here's my two cents worth..Looking at the three view drawing, it looks like the wing tip is pretty close to even with the bottom of the side window. (just a bit below)The right wing tip would be about 20 feet from your head.. So figuring your eye level would be approximately 12-18 inches above that, you might say it looks a little high in that sample shot.From my point of view anyway... :-)http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d3d76a02a21c6c4.jpgStaggerwing

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Hans,I would also add that your screenshot makes the wing look like it is angled forward.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Cornclose: It would be really great if we could get correct "flightsim views" of a real cockpit -- straight left, quarter front left, front, quarter right left and right, all photographed by a person sitting in the pilot's seat. How about you asking your pilot friend and refer him to this thread?With the correct views we could go about this in either of two ways:1) Low-res jpegs that show the correct perspectives would aid me in producing better drawings.2) Hi-res bmps or jpegs could be used more or less directly, adapting them for a flightsim cockpit in the same way as Dreamfleet did for the FS2002 cockpit. If so, a "photo-real" FU3 Baron could be the first one out, possibly adapting it to FS2002 later. Needless to say, I'd welcome anyone else to join in and contribute!Staggerwing: Very good drawings for showing the outside view perspectives! I'll save them and look them up for reference.Chris: The perspectives may very well be wrong on several counts. If Cornclose can help get some pictures of the real thing we'll get the correct answers. Otherwise I'll just keep dabbling into this and try to make the views match.For all of you: Here's my current left and right views. They're based on photos of a real pressurized Baron. My right quarter view has been based on guessing at what that right wing would look like in that view.And yes, the right view will get a seat and a glareshield / dashboard to match the front right quarter view.best regards,Hans Petter

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Hi Hans,My name is Ed Weber. I have a Baron and can take some pictures of the views that sims usually use. I don't have FU but I have PP99 and FS2K2 so I'm familier with views from the cockpit. There is one problem however and I'm not sure it will matter to you or not. My Baron is a 1965 B-55 which means the top of the engine nacelles as seen from the cockpit will be different from the B-58 model that most sims use. Also the cabin windows (number) are different between the two models and my Baron does not have the two control wheels like the later Barons. It has the throw over type like in a Bonanza. If you would like some picture drop me a line at flyers@citlink.net and I can e-mail them to you in JPG format from my digital camera.Regards,Ed Weber a.k.a. tallpilot

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Staggerwing, I believe that's one of the exact images that I used for my wing views. If I'm not mistaken it's the pressurized Baron owned by a Swedish-American (Rosengren or something like that) who lives in California. Further it's a splendid example of why it's hard to convert scenic shots to cockpit views. The photographer is sitting in the right seat getting as close to the window as he can to get a good view of that Greenland airport. This means that nothing of the interior shows. I've spent hours playing with that image :-) I added some more of the wing at the back, extrapolating from what I had, resized it and put it behind the default Windhawk's left interior bitmap. (Actually a resized that bitmap too, making it smaller to look further away and added the parts that were missing around the edges). If you compare this image to those that I posted above you should be able to recognize it.best regards,Hans Petter

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Way to go ED ! :-)Takes care of THAT problem...Now we have to get Ed into a copy FU3.Staggerwing

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I just got the images and converted them to 800 x 600 bmp. The resolution is quite good and the perspectives are just what we need. I'll edit a bit, cut out the 3D areas, import them into a Baron.res and get back to you in a few days. Thanks to Ed we now know exactly what a pilot sees in the front right quarter view:

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Hans,Could you possibly email me the 8 images when you feel they are in a good state ? I would like to return the favour for the ProPilot community by using these for ProPilot 99.ThanksChris Ehttp://website.lineone.net/~flightsimukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

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Certainly Cornclose! Does PP use the same format, with corresponding day and night views? The eight views have grown in file size already since I converted them to bmp. With the night views they'll double in size once more. It's a question of bandwidth. Just email me privately to discuss the details.Hans Petterproverud@online.no

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Here's a picture taken from Ed's Baron as he's turning to final at Coupeville Nolf :-)

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This thread has grown long now but I just want to show you the left front quarter view. The interesting thing about this one is that it's got a lens effect from the curved latched window and some translucent plastic right aft of it. I tried to model translucence by making every second pixel transparent green, in a raster pattern. This is how it turned out:

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Hi Hans,Just got back from a trip in the Baron and logged on to check on your progress. The views are very good. It's amazing the detail that you have been able to get from my pictures. The plastic device behind the latched window is an air scoop that can be rotated out the latched window on the ground to direct the prop air blast into the cabin for ventilation. It's very helpful here in the desert during the summer since the Baron is not airconditioned. :-)Ed Weber a.k.a Tallpilot

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Moving some more pixels to help the cause. First the original then the modified image. There is still a lot of work to do.

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That looks like a very promising IFR cockpit Steve! I notice that you're widening the view. I don't know the lens angle of Ed's camera, meaning whether there should be more peripheral view in all of the shots. I've taken the views "as is" for the ones that I worked on. Alternatively one would resize the original to somewhat less than 800 x 600, paste it in the center of an 800 x 600 images and extrapolate everything to fill the bigger image. What do you all think -- are the quarter views posted showing enough or should they be "widened"? If so, everything would look further away and the cabin would appear wider again.Hans Petter

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It has to be that way to fit in radios and the other things needed to make a complete panel. The quarter views I feel are fine.

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