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Christopher Low

Seattle Scenery Megapack

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With the possibility of a single scenery megapack for the Seattle region being developed in the near future, the entire FU3 file library will need to be "cleaned up". I have decided to start this process by removing my Seattle 2004 pack, and also the three Seattle geotiles.tag zip files. As I have stated in another thread, a list of all existing airfield and scenery packages will need to be created, and then the entire FU3 community can decide which of these are to be included in the final megapack. When this process has been completed, it would be a good idea to remove all of the separate packages from the file library (unless anyone here thinks that some or all of them should be retained).Any suggestions regarding this project would be welcome.Best Wishes,Chris Low.

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Hello Chris.Yes, I do have some important suggestions for all authours who has packages already uploaded.Don't rush your library cleaning too soon.It would be important to have access to all of them for some time to use bits and pieces for other new packages.The "setup" for many of those old and new packages is brilliant piece of work,and many of them only needs some new models or adjustments to make it more perfect.I would like to see a complete replace before starting cleaning the library too mutch.Best regards.Lars Peter.:-wave

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Lars,OK, that sounds sensible. I agree that we do not want to dispose of existing packages until this has been agreed by everyone, particularly the original developers ! My suggestion to "clean up" the file library has more to do with my desire to keep things tidy than anything else. I also do this on my PC. Most people tend to leave unused software on their PC's, and this gradually builds up until their hard disks are cluttered with stuff (and the desktop is littered with icons). I remove anything that I have stopped using almost immediately, resulting in the current situation where I am only using 9Gb of my 40Gb hard disk....and there is only a single line of icons at the left edge of my desktop :-)Chris Low.

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Chris.Yes,- You and me does the same thing-"cleaning up the HD".But not everyone is doing that.Many people install flightsims just for sporadic fun, and it can be too mutch fun for those users (and the HD).I have also planned cleaning up my UK-packages uploaded, but this will be activated when a new FU3_UK south solution is complete, and the sim is running stable for everyone.Someone posted a new area for Vancouver (not the first), and this region is already defined in the region.cfg.file. It seems to me that this would be more stable to do than UK-region.I have always hoped that someone could do just that with correct elevation and scenery.It is a very interesting area with a lot of eye candy involved.Let's hope that also this area one day could be released without fake-postings in this forum.Lars Peter.:-)

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Lars,Yes, I agree that extended Washington State scenery would be nice, but I would prefer if the existing scenery area was extended to the WEST, so that we could have the entire Olympic Mountains in high resolution, Port Angeles International airport within the high resolution scenery area, and the Pacific coastline. Of course, I would also love to see an extended San Francisco scenery region...but that will probably never happen.Chris Low.

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Hi Chris.I also would suggest you wait awhile before you remove your Mega Pack, if we have anought interest and help to rebuild this whole area, we are all going to need access to these older packages. I for one will download your Mega Pack to see how many others are compatible with it. We will need to get permission from some of the guys before we revamp there packages, upload them again, etc.I already have Frank Betts, "AKA" Kim's permission, I still have contact with Bjorn, Pete, Nija, and a few others so I could ask them.Let's hope we gain some more help for this team, After the Holidays it might liven up. Have Fun :-newburnAllan and Puppyhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Hi all, my 2 pece werth.Chris Low,I hope you are not considering remooving packages of other othersfrom the avsim file library ?Meny of thees others are not around nay more, so geting there permitionwould be dificalt if not imposibl.And eeven if you did get there permition, I would stil be aganst getingrid of them.I am thinking manly of Hennie how was the one how discuvered houw toget around the icon limit by striping the packages of there aiportfolders.He may not hav prodused any packages him-self, but he did enable usto hav all the packages avalable at the time from other others andfrom other web sights and striping sum of there irport contence got all 196 packages working together. Meny of thees packages are no longer avalabl anywhere els.inclooding a fuwe that where never uploded anywhere els, like sum of Allan_D,s and other divelopers work at the time.The best thing about hennie,s packages is that thy are all dun by diferantpeopl, and as a result eech place has a diferant look and feel about it.Iv got 186 packages in Seattle alone, but no one would like my setup as Iv got most of my icons at places that dont even exist in real fife.I put mor value on just one simpl pacgae where no one els has ever put any models, than a 100 packages that hav been re-dun for the umteethtime!!!!!!!But thats just me.The only thing that stops me from directing new-cumers to Henni,s packages as aposed to any of Chris Low,s mega packages is thatChris Low is hear and Hennie is not.I love standing on your tows Chris, what,s that, youv notest! ho!I also like to clean up and hav things tidey, espeshaly in fu3 pacgagesfolder. I prefer a gackage,s airport folder to be in the gackage it self.and not in the REGIONS airport folder.This makes it eesyer for me to choos which packages will hav an iconand which will not, as aposed to having that disision made for me.I also prefer eech package to be an individual packages, and not severalpackages put into one.Ho dear, Im steping on mor tows nouw, I forget hows.O, hang on, I was forgeting all of Chris Low,s trees in Sanfran,evey one shood get them. If I had to choos only one of the erly packages from Frank Bates web-sight.I think it would hav to be this one with all the small bildings by Sequim Vally airport (top left of Seattle).If you havent alredy got it then giv it a go.It dus not hav an icon or any AI trafic, so it should fit in just fine giving you no complications.Hear it is.glidernut.

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Allan,I have already removed my Seattle 2004 pack from the file library. However, sending you a copy of this from my own backup disks would not be a problem, and it would also enable me to remove one or two packages that will be incompatible with a project like this (due to modifications of the Seattle geotiles.tag file).Let me know when you need this.Chris Low.

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Glidernut,Fear not. I do not have the authority to remove packages developed by others, so this is only something that could be done with the full permission of the package authors, and also when everyone else in the FU3 community is also in full agreement.Don't worry about "standing on my toes". I have probably deserved this at times over the past two and a half years :-)With respect to "separate packages", I totally agree. However, this should not be a problem as far as airfields are concerned. I think that it would be best if these were kept as individual packages within the megapack itself. This would enable each user to "pick and choose" which airfields they would like to have installed.I know the Sequim Valley package that you are referring to. In fact, I used it in the early days of FU3....before I joined AVSIM Online.You know, this cooperation lark is starting to become addictive. I think that I'm going to enjoy this......Chris Low.

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Hi John, Thanks for your kind words about my packages. It also sounds like your enjoying my fruitcake receipe that I sent you. For the rest of the FU3 gang that would like to try it, here it is.FRUITCAKE RECIPE1 cup water1 cup sugar4 large eggs2 cups dried fruit1 teaspoon baking soda1 teaspoon salt1 cup brown sugarlemon juicenuts1 gallon whiskeySample the whiskey to check for quality.Take a large bowl.Check the whiskey again to be sure it is of the highest quality.Pour one level cup and drink.Repeat.Turn on the electric mixer; beat 1 cup bettr in a large, fluffy bowl.Add 1 teaspoon sugar and beat again.Make sure the whiskey is still OK.Cry another tup. Turn off mixer.Break 2 legs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit.Mix on the turner.If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers, pry it loose with a drewscriver.Sample the whiskey to check for tonsisticity.Next, sift 2 cups of salt. Or something, Who cares...Check the whiskey.Now sift the lemon juice and strain your nuts.Add one table. Spoon. Of sugar or something.Whatever you can find.Grease the oven.Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees.Don't forget to beat off the turner.Throw the bowl out of the window.Check the whiskey again.Go to bed.Who the heck likes fruitcake anyway?Cris, If a few other scenery guys wish to do this, then you can send me your package folder.MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALLHave Fun :-newburnAllan and Puppyhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Good Morning All,A mega scenery pack. Is there enough info on it to approximate it's zipped size? As a "dial-upper", those kinds of things are important to me.Thanks,JimB.

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Jim,Since we do not currently know which existing packages will be included in this megapack, and how many new packages will be developed....it is rather difficult to estimate the size of the final zip file at the present time :-)Chris Low.

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I think glidernut is onto something here. Can I suggest that we employ (at the usual astounding freeware pay rates) glidernut to come up with a configuration that is the ultimate FU3 mega package? He has always been fair, and understands more than most of us about existing packages and best ways of combining them. Just a suggestion, and it won't work unless he gets plenty of help from us all.If this is OK, I suggest too that we agree to help him, but we agree not to disagree with him! i.e. we accept his choices and do our best to support and promote the new mega-package.In this way, glidernut could possibly start with his icon-optimised version and add/subtract packages to get the best solution - it sound like he already has a very good solution!I would be happy to upgrade any packages selected, and have no problems with any of my packages being included or excluded. I must admit that I expect Chris' packages will still be the main ones used, since he has shown extraordinary skills in producing large numbers of consistent high density sceneries. Buit incorporation of just a few of the others, like the building modelling north of SEATAC, Bill's bluff, the famous Yelm package, the NE corner packages like Harvey Field, some gliding airfields etc - anyway I better stop there!Also is it possible to keep outer terrain? Losing that is like flying FS2004 with only megascenery packages and not the default.RobD.

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Rob.I could add to your idea by saying lets figure out where the blank areas still exist, Area's that could benefit from some 3D objects.Maybe then we could each take a different area and work at filling it with objects, Send them back and forth to each other to make sure nothing interfere's with each others area. FU3 autogen at it's best. Have Fun :-newburnAllan and Puppyhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Hang on hang on a minit, I am flatered to be nominated as sum sort of controler But I dont like responsabilaty in any shape or form!If I axepted such a role, I would be "sloly" shooting my silf in the foot.I mean I am beter at critisizing others than actualy doing anything usefall.Critisizing others is my one and only way of doing things.Its my one and only tactik in life.Take that awy from me and I am like a fish out of worter.If I axepted this responsabilaty I would hav to critisize my self!And that would never do!It would be like comiting sooisyd.I might even end up actualy having to do sum work or sumthing positiv.Bisieds, I dont think there can be a best icon-optimised configuration version Of FU3 mega package!Im sory, but what seems like an improovment to one person may be a retrigade stepto sumone els.I think there are as meny best configuration versions of FU3 as there are peoplthat fly FU3.I think the way forwerd is "NOT" to do an all singing all dansing mega packagethat would only work on sum computers and not on others, and would not be perfectfor any one person, and would be so mined boglingly dificalt to modify it to one,s owne persanal preferanses that thay wouldent even bother.The job of personalizing it, is so big its inormas, its as big as an errrrrmm, errrmmmmmmmm, Its as big as a very big thing. I think the way forwerd is to just uplowd one package to avsin at a time.And in this way, every one that instals it can chek where it is and if it workswith the rest of there setup, and personalize it in Fled, and diside wetheror not it sould hav an icon or not.To this end I would sergest that every individual package sould at leesthav an icon to bigin with, and that the icon is more or les in the midel of the package,even if the package is not an airport and only has models models.I hav tryed to cum up with a snap-shot of Seattle showing every icon of everypackage that has ever been prodused, in order to see the areas that could benifitfrom having sum models, But its all but imposibl.But its not nesosery to know this presisly, as I estimat about 95% of Seattle iswithout any models at all.PS, I could hav dun a package in the time its tacan me to right this,and I would hav dun so too, if it wasant for the hart felt dred of Fled.glidernut.:-wave

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Glidernut,That does make a lot of sense. Maybe we should decide which packages to use for a specific airfield/airport/scenery area, and then upload them to the FU3 file library as a collection of smaller packs....maybe by individual authors ? For example, when it has been decided which of my own upgrades are to be included in this project, I could then upload a combined pack with only those individual packages that have been selected by the entire FU3 community ? Every other developer could then do likewise (Allan, Robert, Jon.....etc).If we just avoid "stepping on anyone else's toes" (we can leave that sort of thing to you, glidernut), then the only problem that needs to be resolved is the AI environment. Avoiding duplication of individual airports is all very well, but if someone decides to only download half of the selected packages, then the AI environment will not be "complete". This could potentially cause problems.What does everyone else think ?Chris Low.

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OK, enough talk. Time to vote. Firstly, let's agree on direction. I suggest the following major choices on direction:1) Do nothing: people stick with their current chosen setups - maybe Chris' megapack, the gliding packages, the Bush Pilot's packages, the 20 or 30 early packages or some insane combination of them all (like mine:) )2) We work together from an agreed starting point to produce a new group of packages. A possible starting point would be: Chris's packages Chris's AI Outer terrain assumed installed. Removal of some icons (I would need some help here from John/Chris) Replacement of south area with Yelm package Add outer terrain airport packages such as Grand Canyon, Clare's V., Las Vegas. Choose whether to use extended model set or LGS base models only. Then start adding/taking packages by subjective choice or by group vote.3) All of 2) plus Rework airports to upgrade models, etc. Try to fill some of the blank space (Allan's "autogen" suggestion!) 4) Start from scratch. (Not a serious option IMHO!)Let me know your preference - I will add up the votes. The first option to receive 10 votes from different people (hah!) wins. Feel free to comment / improve / suggest changes to what I have suggested here. If there are not enough votes then option 1 wins by default.If we decide to go ahead, and if no-one else is willing to do it, I am happy to give it a try, after I have finished my current airport package. To keep it fair, I agree not to include any of my packages in the pack, and in return, ask that the new megapack5 be officially named the Missing Nosewheel Pak.RobD.

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Robert,I would probably suggest option 2....although I do not have the outer terrain scenery installed. I need to know what packages from other authors will be included in the megapack, so that I can remove the relevant duplicates from Seattle 2004. Several others need to be removed because of incompatibilities with the default FU3 scenery (including those where the terrain has been "flattened").I am pretty sure that Jon Point is expanding and enhancing my version of Kapowsin Field, so I am happy to include his version of this airfield in the megapack.Chris Low.

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Rob.I'd go for opion 2 also, But only if we gain more help then us 3Chris, Rob, and Allan. It will not work we need more help to do thisChris.Please, I'm not trying to start another flame war here with this.You said So that I can remove the relevant duplicates from Seattle 2004 I've asked you many times to please remove your flying B from your package and then the guys could use my Yelm package with your Mega pack.I know you don't download anyone elses stuff and look at it but if you'd ever like to see the Yelm area at it's best send me a note and I'll send you the package.If you'd like to include it in your next mega then go ahead.It would be cool if you'd also take a look at my Oswald Field and the fun packs from that area.Have you ever seen the Flying B from this angle?http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/57082.jpgOr the Yelm area with this many objects?http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/57083.jpgYou have to remember there was lots of fantastic scenery added by many different authors, Naji, Pete, Frank, Bjorn, I'm sorry I don't have the time to name them all. However If you'd really like to help build 1 super package that works for all I'll jump back in here and tell you the ones you need to add, ( With there permission of course )Have Fun :-newburnAllan and Puppyhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Allan,Well, I don't want to take direct control of a project like this, but including your Yelm and Oswald Field packages in the megapack is perfectly fine as far as I am concerned, together with your version of Leisureland Airpark.Like I said, I am very happy to let others decide whose packages should be included. All I need to know is which ones from Seattle 2004 need to be removed. Can you give me some idea of the areas covered by your large scenery packages ? That would enable me to determine which airfields I need to remove from my pack. Obviously, my version of Flying B would need to be removed ;-)Best Wishes,Chris Low.PS. I have used packages developed by others in the past, and enjoyed them. However, I just decided to build everything to my own specification shortly after learning how to use FLED. I know that I have stepped on the toes of others in the past (including yours), but this was never a deliberate plan. I was simply dedicated to my work, and I suppose that I just became blinded to the realities of the situation. Still, that can be corrected now, which is why I would prefer to take a back seat here, and let others direct the project.

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Chris.I still believe that if some of us are going to do this, we need to start with your mega Pack because of the extensive AI work you've already put into it. Plus your scenery you've already added. Then someone one could add all the other sceneries that are good into it.My Leisureland is not a big package so I would look at your package for that area. My internet connection is way to slow for me to do this by my lonsome,I,m still willing to help someone else though.If we don't get this up and working together, Please don't remove any of your Packages from the next Mega Pack. We can just leave things as they are It's OK by me. Not a problem Most of my packages are in Hennies scenery pack already so anyone that wants them can get them. Or already has them.Have a nice weekend :-newburnAllan http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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