Success! CH Flight Sim Yoke USB & Pro Pedals USB

[Guest Seadog]

At long last ... achieved full 6-axis plus differential toe brakes control over this program with CH Flight Sim Yoke USB and Pro Pedals USB, thanks greatly to the generous help from Pete, Jonathan, Hans, Chris, CaptRolo, Dugald, RobD and others whose contributions we consulted. That let me try every known working combination of joystick setups (and hundreds of unknown ones!), and eliminate them all on my old computer. Thus the fault lay, not in your setups, but in my computer's handling of USB, so I built a new one, recycling my existing mouse, keyboard, monitor, floppy and optical drives:Asus A7N8X-X board w/nVidia nForce 2 basic chipset, onboard 5.1 Realtec sound ($63)AMD Athlon XP 3000+ cpu (Barton core) 400MHz FSB ($112)one Kingmax 512 MB DDR 3200 RAM ($71)ATI Radeon 9600 w/256 MB DDR RAM ($130)Maxtor 120 GB 7200 rpm Ultra ATA 133 hard drive w/8 MB cache ($60)Antec Sonata super quiet case w/380 W power supply & front USB/Audio ($60)Win XP Pro Upgrade ($160); TOTAL = $656(Free Bonus - the annoying horizontal line in the F3 view is gone!)Neither the case, nor the hard drive, nor the video card was absolutely necessary, so the cost could have been only $406. Took a week to build, get all programs, drivers and Win XP updates loaded - except for SP2; avoid that one like an angry beggar for now. Plugged the Yoke in first, got it recognized as new hardware, then the Pedals, likewise. It only took two tries to find the configuration that worked in fu3.cfg. No CH Control Manager or combo driver necessary. For posterity, it is:; joystick setup - NB: joy_device 1 is not a typojoy_device 1rudder_device 2 3toe_brakes_device 2 1 2throttle_device 1 3prop_pitch_device 1 4mixture_device 1 5Soon, in Pete's lovely, lyrical phrase, I shall land as lightly as a flea on ricepaper. All I need to do now, is learn how to fly. The hard part is behind me.:-lol Thank you again for your help.Seadog :-bigangel

[Guest CaptRolo]

Seadog; Congrats and happy flying . I'm suprised that you didn't have to use a control mgr or combo driver. are the prop and mixture controls backward??? That means FU3 will fly on XP OS with no problems . good news !!Did you install FU3 on new XP upgrade or have it on another HDD ?CaptRolo

[Guest Seadog]

Hi, Cap'n. No, everything works in the correct direction, nothing reversed. I installed the XP Pro upgrade on a new, blank (formatted and partitioned) hard drive, and installed FU3 on the same drive, albeit in a different partition. I knew FU3 could recognize two different controllers natively, and the real difference here, IMHO, is the chipset, nVidia nForce2. Forums are rife with negative comments about VIA. This upgrade took me from native USB 1.0 to 2.0, but I honestly believe the difference is the nVidia chipset on the motherboard. I sure do appreciate all the extensive, kind help you gave me.:-bigangel Happy flying.-Seadog

[Guest effyouthree]

Seadog,Glad you sorted it out. I understand that motherboards can be a scourge sometimes but don't blame VIA chipsets as such. I use a VIA chipset in my current (game) PC and I have no problems whatsoever mixing my gameport yoke, USB pedals and levers (homemade from a Sidewinder!) and USB gamepad switches with FU3. Of course, I run Win98SE for an extra performance boost in FU3 and MM2. With my 'old' ~1.6GHz processor, I get a 5fps boost in '98 as opposed to Win2K. When XP came along, a number of motherboard designers embraced the new software abilities in a strange way, causing incompatibilities with many hardware setups. Certainly, users of non-Intel chipsets noticed the most problems but these could mostly be attributed to lax design as there are a number of good VIA-based MBs around. Those of us that had already made the transition to Win2K didn't notice anything, until we upgraded to XP. Then, joysticks worked backwards or not at all, ISA-bus soundcards lost many features (mine lost the ability to access digital inputs and the joystick was ALWAYS device #0 :-grr ). My XP disc is still in it's package, awaiting a more compatible/stable MB!Those making a switch from '98 to XP were rewarded by basically having to buy a complete new PC, just to restore the functionality they already had :-(Now that the second generation of XP-compatible motherboards are in the market, many of these 'frigglies' should have disappeared. The Nvidia chipset is a good example. I actually know an Nvidia designer so I've had a bit of background on what they were trying to achieve and it appears they've done very well! I will be shopping for another MB soon (mine's 2 years+ old) and will be using 'legacy' compatibility as my final decider as I wish to run multiple OSs and it's ONLY XP that makes older hardware incompatible. I might just use one of those external USB-to-gameport adaptors.Besides, the new CH stuff feels like toys so, unless they come up with a true replacement for my 10 year old yoke, I'll be using it for a while yet. Believe it or not, I bought it for FS4 :-eek Feels like an old friend now ;)Regards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

[Guest Seadog]

Chacun a son gout. My old rig refused to cooperate, and my new one complies docilely. What more can one ask? I'm simply grateful to be able to use the program as God intended, simply, straightforwardly, without any complexities or intervening programs. You men are light years beyond me, as modifiers and designers. I simply wish to avail myself of the native properties of the program. Nevertheless, my experience stands on its own: a simple, clean and functional installation. That will let me learn to use the program, and, one day, perhaps approach the level of the rest of you.As a beginner, though, I'd enormously appreciate a comprehensive explanation of how to import and use the scenery packages you genuinely clever guys have developed for the UK and Europe, and a listing of which files to download. You who are intensively involved in all that speak in such shorthand that an outsider, a novice like me, simply can't catch the drift. Clearly, Chris Low is a brilliant fellow, for example, but I haven't a clue what it is that I should be looking for to expand my horizons in respect of what he has created. I'm envious of you all for your expanded horizons, but unable to share them without a more basic introductory text.You all have a long history together which allows you to be terse. That very brevity of instant communication excludes newcomers from benefiting from your work, ultimately limiting the circle of users. That circle of users is the spawning ground for the next ring of creators. So my modest suggestion is that you create a text file, regularly updated, explaining how to find and add the additional regional scenery. Why build a better mousetrap, but hide it from the mice?Respectfully, Seadog

[Guest effyouthree]

Seadog,My apologies for appearing terse. I tend to be either too wordy or too abrupt, in a typical 'Australian' way ;)My experiences with FU3 have mostly been gained from this forum and the wonderful people who frequent it. Honestly. Look at my early posts and you'll see I couldn't even load a repaint :-rollI know we all tend to put our experiences behind us over time. This is important as we can move on to new horizons. I do appreciate that sometimes, people are 'left behind' and I don't make apologies for that. To be honest, I sometime envy most FU3 users because they get to FLY most of the time whereas Chris, RobD, Ansgar, Myself and others spend most of our time working on it!To address this problem, I used to post my email address with posts but you wouldn't believe the problems I had, trying to help EVERYONE with things I often barely understood. In some cases, I had to try what they wanted just to see for myself.So, what I offer is this; if you have a question on anything, post it here in the forum and we can pick it up as we go, without having to drop what we're doing first. If you believe that one particular person could answer your question, rather than post them an email, ask it here (use their name in the post heading for attention) so everyone can share in it.*Hint*Every time I see a thread about something of which I know too little, I print the thread to a PDF so I can access it later.Again, my apologies. I'm weird, what more can I say? :-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

[Christopher Low 5,338]

Seadog,A brilliant fellow, eh ? Yes, that sounds like a suitable definition :-lolAnyway, since you mentioned something about my packages in your post, I thought that I had better find out what it is that you need to know. So....do you have any of my upgrades installed ? If not, would you like me to e-mail you the latest versions of my Seattle and SanFran packs ? My e-mail address is listed below:-Christopher dot Low at btinternet dot comBest Wishes,Chris Low.

[Guest Seadog]

Jonathan -Sorry I digressed so much from your post in advancing my own quest for knowledge of other things. The solution I've written about is purely a USB one and purely for the hardware/software combination described. Your mixed-device setup would probably have me pulling my hair out. One reason I've settled on USB controllers is the greater number of communications channels they support compared to gameport devices, which have but four according to Bob Church of Stickworks; another is that gameports are notoriously spikey in and of themselves; a third is that there are speed compatibility issues, not only of the gameport itself in some cases, but also between the gameport and the processor; fourth, gameports are disappearing rapidly in the marketplace; finally, USB communicates with the cpu faster and smoother than does the gameport.When I used solely gameport controllers, I never had a problem with VIA-based motherboards (4 in a row). My problems occurred specifically with USB and the VIA KT266-A chipset, so I can't even speak about others. While I can't speak authoritatively about the quality of the current VIA based motherboards, I can tell you, first, that CH's technical folks advise against them, and, second, that my extensive survey of the literature bearing on VIA and USB disclosed one heartbreaking tale of woe after another. It was simply too great a risk to chance that I might serendipitously acquire the one model of VIA board that actually worked. For several years now, a leading tech site that I frequent (Anandtech.com) has spoken highly of the simplicity, stability and versatility of the board I chose. Their recommendation coincided with my own desire to give nVidia a chance at my business.I never used Win2K, so I have no knowledge of its qualities. As I mentioned in the original post, I installed Win XP and immediately installed all security updates and SP 1, but am heeding the hue and cry about SP 2. Then I installed and patched FU3 and then hooked up the yoke, followed by the pedals. In XP's Game Controllers control panel, the pedals appear first, curiously enough, and I can find no apparent option to designate or change the device number, as one can do in 98SE; no such numbers appear. Since I'm new to XP, I could well be missing something, but I haven't found it yet.So far as legacy compatibility is concerned in choosing a new motherboard, dual booting XP and 98SE would ensure that from a software standpoint. I plan to convert my old computer to a permanent 98SE box for use with older sims which support only gameport controllers. At any rate, from a hardware standpoint, I suppose one could also support legacy hardware under Win 98SE in a dual boot configuration, but booting under XP would then disable the same features you mentioned when under that OS. There's nothing specific about motherboards that would cure that problem, the source of which lies in the OS. I've read quite a lot about USB to gameport adapters, and I think you'll find that offers you no solution. When they work at all, they do nothing to enhance the capabilities of the gameport device. The reason for that, as hinted above, is that there are a limited number of communication channels (4) in the gameport pinout. Hooking it up to a plug adapter can not create any more, and usually disappoints, according to the majority of reports I've read. So far as soundcard support is concerned, have you checked with www.soundcard-drivers.com to see if there are updated Win XP drivers available for your card? They have quite an extensive selection, which I've searched both by card brand and model, audio chip manufacturer, and specific audio chip device; many times, a Win NT driver will work under XP, according to what I've read, but not tried. Using on-board sound is another option, and there are a number of boards using nVidia chipsets which support digital sound. In fact, the highest rated sound producer these days is the nVidia SoundStorm solution found in the more advanced versions of the nForce2 chipset, the ones with the MCP-T Media Communications Processor chip. But don't wait, as SoundStorm won't be appearing in the market for long. nVidia concluded people's ears were filled with wax and they didn't much care about audio quality, so it won't be on the next generation of boards.Regarding CH yokes, I first used the gameport Virtual Pilot Pro. After a number of years, tiring of erratic responses, in the interest of science I disassembled it. I retain the pieces. Anyway, I find the current CH Flight Sim Yoke USB as sturdy as the gameport one was, and a great deal smoother.At the end of the day, all I can say is that the new computer I've described running XP works perfectly with the CH USB products and FU3 without any need for extra programs or special modifications at all, and I'm very thankful for the end of a quest that has lasted about 5 years. Two computers ago, FU3 would only crash to desktop; last computer, USB wouldn't work right; now all is well.Best to you, Seadog

[Guest Seadog]

Thanks, Jonathan. I'll follow the advice you've given.Seadog

[Guest Seadog]

Thanks very much for the kind offer, Chris. I'll be making contact with you by email soon to take you up on it. But first -There's a reason I didn't do so in your last round of such offers, when Dubravko and others got them. The reason is, I didn't know what they were, what they replaced, how to use them and so on. I like to have some knowledge in advance as to what I'm getting myself into. For example, for quite a while I thought Rob's UKS meant United Kingdom-South; I've since gathered the S stands for Scenery. :) I've reviewed all the FU3 files on Avsim, ordered by author, in scan mode. By following this forum for some time, I've acquired a modest degree of familiarity with the names of the active participants.Looking just at scenery (as opposed to aircraft), I become confused as to which packages are current, which ones work with which other ones, which ones might require a separate installation of FU3, and so forth. That there may be a readme file in the download is good, but I've been trying to sort out what to download before actually spending the time doing that.In that sort-by-author review, I found Andre's scenery for UK and Switzerland, Bogdan's scenery which may be out of date, CaptRolo's airports, Dan Sullivan's Sequim 3, Naji's airports, Hans Petter's repalletized Seattle Models, Hans & Rob's London City Airport, Hennie's Mega Seattle, Jonathan's OT scenery and other object upgrades, Pete Collis's airports and other files, Quentin's City of London, and Rob D's files apparently superseded by the his 3 part New UKS packages. These, in addition to your file uploaded about a year ago.So I think those are questions and issues of general interest, which may well be best suited to a separate thread for replies by those involved. In any event, I personally would appreciate help in sorting it all out. I have DSL, but it's mighty anemic, way out here at the tail end of possibility, and there are days it's not a whole lot better than dial-up, so I'd rather not download everything just to learn some or much of it is incompatible or out of date.Advice from anyone :-halo is welcome indeed.-Seadog

[Lars Peter 0]

Hello Seadog.Yes, the fu series is a very special software made on old platforms, and is still for me the first flightsim when it comes to real flightbehavior and aerodynamic'sIt makes me feeling beeing right there, riding on real turbulence, and real scenery.I aggree with Jon saying this sim runs better with Win.98SE. and with a lot of RAM.I am also using this sim with my old mashine P3 600 only, and find this better with my old voodoo5 card than using the new XP solution. It has a perfect balance running win.98SE.My install with both LG and the new UK scenery is running very well with this old platform.The new XP is for me no better, and I can not take advantages from DX9.0 even with my new radeon videocard made for XP.So my flights with this sim this will still remain on my old mashine despite the new age of hardware/software.It will not be installed again om my new XP mashine for a long time to come.HMMM- The Electronic Arts Company- does not continue this..We still have to use old DX7.0, but thanks to the fantastic "addon makers" and first class people here in the FU forum,The sim is still alive and running well. Take care.Lars Peter.

[Guest Seadog]

Hello, Lars PeterThat was a gorgeous screen shot you attached. Thank you for sharing it.You mention running on Win 98SE with lots of RAM. Having used Win 95, 98 and 98SE - all rather similar - for nearly nine years, and having read quite a few of those 1,000 page manuals for that OS, such as the one by Peter Norton, it might be of interest to you that Win 98SE runs best with no more than 512 MB of RAM. Extra RAM beyond that amount actually slows down Win 98SE. There is no such limitation for Win XP.You also mention DirectX 7.0. I have often wondered if my constant upgrading of DirectX was a source of the problems I had previously. I think I shall try DirectX 7 as an experiment when I set my old computer back up. My plan is to start with a fresh installation of Win 98SE, which comes with DirectX 6.1, and I should have somewhere a copy of DirectX 7. Then I'll see what difference that makes.Thank you again for your comments and the great screen shot.-Seadog

[Christopher Low 5,338]

Well, my current PC has a Gigabyte K8VT800-PRO motherboard (with a VIA chipset), and I also use a CH Flightstick Pro joystick. I don't have any problems.Chris Low.

[Guest VFR_Steve]

I can't seem to get those joystick settings to work with my setup :(I'm running XP with both CH yoke & Pedals ?

[Guest Seadog]

That's a great pity, since having it work perfectly is truly delightful.You mention your OS (XP), but nothing about your motherboard and chipset, and nothing about what, in particular, does not work. I'd be happy to discuss this further with you by email to see if there's any way I can help. It's the very least I can do, given the extraordinary generosity of the members of this forum toward me, most of whom I named in my original post. I believe you only need to click on the email icon next to my nom de plume, Seadog, at the top of my posts. If that doesn't work, let me know here and we'll sort it out.-Seadog