i'm able to ask for a specific iap approach, before the first vector. there is usually 90 seconds there after you are told to expect x until the first vector.also keep in mind, that sids/dp and stars are not typically specified in the flight plan, but given to you by clearance delivery (sids/dps anyway)we can't handle, or accomodate every star there is. we can make it realistic. in the real world, the star ends when you contact approach. it's approaches job to get you on the ground. that is why we added the iap feature, to allow people to finish the flight with a specific iap approach. it isn't a star at that point.altitude requirements are not implemented in any sid/dp or star. the planners can't accomodate them. if you want to adhere to altitude requirements, choose the notams checkbox for departure and/or arrival. then all climb/decent clearances are preceeded by "when able" and you aren't flamed for being at your procedure's altitude requirement but not at your assigned altitude.hope this helps.

Thanks JD.A good point you make about the STAR no longer being a STAR once you have contacted approach, after all, it's STANDARD ARRIVAL not a STANDARD LANDING (STLA?....lol) :-)I will try the NOTAMS setting too, sounds like a good idea!CheersGraham UK

Just a note that it has been posted on some real aviation sites that as jd stated, once approach has been contacted and you are directed off the STAR route, then you are no longer bound by the STAR.I also use NOTAM arrival options so I can stick to the published altitude requirements in the TERPS. RC does not maintain a database of published TERP altitudes but estimates them as AGL above the terrain mesh database. Depending on the type of aircraft and environment, I sometimes take IAP choices or accept vectoring. Of course getting destination weather and traffic patterns is critical to making these choices.Am I correct jd?

right onin the next version i'm working on, i've calculated an msa for each airport in the database, and added a field on the controller page.there are several government sites, that have terrain databases. i took one, that consisted of long/lat, altitude - for every minute of long/lati then wrote a little program that read each airport's long/lat, and scanned the database for points within 20 miles of the airport. the highest point within 20 miles was written back to the airport file. (rounded and other good stuff).kind of eliminates the need for notams, because i will never descend you lower than the msa. no more flying into mountains. LOLjd

Nice one JD!I remember in my days of using RC2, when in pitch black darkness, RC vectored me directly into a mountain near Las Vegas.Maybe I should have checked the livery of the 737 I was flying, it was 'Stevie Wonder Airways', if I remember correctly :-)Graham

I am a bit annoyed with the RC3's handling of SIDs and STAR's. It is still not really flexible enough. Usually I have just started my STAR, and RC3 vectors you off Then AFTER that, you get offered the chance for an IAP/ILS approach, which would allow you to continue with your STAR..... but you have already been vectored off :-( It would be great if this was offered furthur out from your destination, so you can fly the whole STAR in peace The same goes for the SID..... 30 miles from your take-off, you are expected to be on course and at your cleared altude, when some SIDs are longer and have altitude requirements. So you might be flying the SID at 6000ft, then suddenly get busted for NOT being at 15000ft, because you are over 30 miles from the airport.BTW I am using the Flex Dep Proc option in the Controller info window.Have I missed something? Or does anyone know a way to avoid this, maybe by changing the flight plan in some way? Any ideas?ThanksGraham UK

>also keep in mind, that sids/dp and stars are not typically>specified in the flight plan, but given to you by clearance>delivery (sids/dps anyway)JD, I have to take exception to this statement. I assume you are talking about real world here. In the US, if you file an IFR flight plan and and departure and/or arrival airports have a published SID or DP a relevant one will have to be filed in the plan. Even in the case of a radar DP (i.e. published therefore filed).Now, will clearance give you what you filed? Not always - I get via as filed about 75% of the time. And that is true only because I am familiar with the route structure in my neck of the woods. My experience seems to be that with scheduled carriers, you will almost always get your FILED routing in terms of arrival and departure. However, almost always you will get vectored at both ends at least here in the West. Eastern and Central are more congested and probably follow the 'preferred routing plans' more closely.

i stand corrected about the flight plan.i'll be in redmond next week. i think it's time for a night out on the town, heh?jd

Hi JD, I like the possibility that ATC will not vector you to an obstruction. We are doing fine with Arrival NOTAMS but your idea seems keen. Good Luck.

The approach charts I use show two msa environments. The first is minimum altitude depending on the direction about some navaid near the destination within a 25nm radius. The second is the descent step to the altitude when turning inbound within a 10 nm radius of the IAF as shown in the descent profile diagram.Now I know that's a heck of a lot to attempt to get. The point may be to cover the widest consideration, you may need to expand your search radius to 25 or even 35 nm, the latter in case the minimum approach reference radius is not centered on the runways or IAF. If shooting an IAP by the charts, then unless you have some good algorithm up your sleeve, NOTAMS may still have to be used to please ATC in order to fly at the established altitude of 10 nm radius from the IAF such as when doing a procedure turn and if doing a precision approach would be the altitude flown to intercept the GS which FS2K2 is awful fussy about, if you get my crosswind . . . er-uh drift.Something to think about. Maybe ATC would not limit your altitude variance once you've reached a certain point at the IAP or 10 nm limit. Is that turned off anyway in 3.01 once you've selected you are going to shoot an IAP in effect turning on a NOTAMS condition?Approach vectors are, of course, another issue, but you still need to be low enough at 10 nm flying inbound to capture the GS at the outer marker/IAF.One other thought to complicate matters. There is a navaid database I recall that includes the msl of the navaid. Perhaps this can supply a base for the correct GS intercept altitude when the navaid is the OM.

Ron,Once you request and select the IAP, you're on your own. I fon't believe RC looks at altitude at all, but it's been a while. There's always one way to find out. ;-)