Hi there.I have a simple question: my approach plate IAF is at 3000' but, since i have to wait to contact approach to ask for IAP Appr. and then dscend i'm always too late and cannot reach IAF at 3000' as prescribed :-(Can anyone please explain what should i do in this case?Should i begin my descent w/o center clearance?Thanks in advance for helpingLuigi ;-)

Hi Luigi,You don't say what aircraft you're flying or what the speed and descent rate is. Try descending at 2,000fpm around 220-240kts but only when you're cleared to. Descending without permission will incur the wrath of Bill Stevens x(Is this problem only at one airport or several?Let us know how you get on.Cheers,

Ray,thanks for reply.Last time it happened while descending from FL 150, 1700fpm, 180 KIAS in a PSS DHC8 at LFKJ - Ajaccio.IMO the problem is that center handoff to arrival just a bit late so i had to dive to reach HORRO fix, that was the IAF for ILS RWY2.What you think?ThanksLuigi ;-)

Hi Luigi,It sounds as though you should have plenty of time to get down but can you upload your flight plan so I can see the route please? Remember RC doesn't know about altitudes for specific waypoints. It will guide you down so that you can intercept the ILS roughly 10-15 miles out at 3000 - 4000ft.Cheers,

You won't generally be flying the full procedure with RC, you're usually getting vectors to final. I would only worry about the altitude crossing the FAF and let the controller give me altitudes until intercept for ILS approaches. As long as I've been descended such that I can intercept the glideslope from below things should work out OK.

Hi Peter,until yesterday i usually flew my flightplans following RCv3 vectors from departure to touchdown and all went just fine.Now, for something more professional i wanted to try IAP plates so, as soon as i establish my initial contact with arrival i declare i'd like to follow my IAP - ILS - RWY **. After that they clear me to a certain altitude for the final approach and do not give anymore vectors. So i begin my descent and i bust the IAF every time :-(What should i do to get that IAF at prescribed altitude?Thanks for your patienceLuigi ;-)

>Hi Peter,>until yesterday i usually flew my flightplans following RCv3>vectors from departure to touchdown and all went just fine.>Now, for something more professional i wanted to try IAPWell, generally I find that pilots I know prefer radar vectors rather than fly the full procedure including procedure turns and all that jazz, but I digress ;)>plates so, as soon as i establish my initial contact with>arrival i declare i'd like to follow my IAP - ILS - RWY **.>After that they clear me to a certain altitude for the final>approach and do not give anymore vectors. So i begin my>descent and i bust the IAF every time :-(>What should i do to get that IAF at prescribed altitude?OK, so you've been cleared to descend to (altitude) by center, then handed off to approach. You request ILS (something) from approach, who gives you a new clearance. Exactly what does approach tell you?In the meantime I'll experiment with my setup and see what I can come up with.

Approach tells me to descend to 8200' until the initial.... forgive me but i'm italian and my english is very poor :-(At that moment i'm flying at FL150 and i begin my descent to thr IAF HORRO at 3000' but i always bust altitude!thank youLuigi ;-)

OK, I just did a flight from KBOS to KEWR (Boston to Newark). Center descended me to 10,000 and handed me off to approach. Approach told me to expect the runway 22L approach. At this point I was level at 10,000. I acknowledged the new controller, then selected IAP, ILS, 22L. It then said "Maintain 2100 until the initial, cleared (full?) ILS 22L approach". At that point I acknowledged it, and started my descend and flew the full approach (TEB VOR at 3000, a fix at 2500, ILS intercept at 1500, land) without any problems, which sounds like what you're doing, so I'm not sure what's different.Any chance you could post your FS2K flight plan so I we can try and fly exactly what you're flying and attempt to reproduce the conditions? Just open the .pln file into Notepad and paste the contents.Thanks.P

>I'm not sure what's different.Nothing! same ATC behaviour.>Any chance you could post your FS2K flight plan so I we can>try and fly exactly what you're flying and attempt to>reproduce the conditions?Here it is... together with two picsLuigi ;-)title=LIML to LFKJdescription=LIML, LFKJtype=IFRroutetype=1cruising_altitude=19000departure_id=LIML, N45* 26.96', E9* 16.70', +000354.33departure_position=36destination_id=LFKJ, N41* 55.43', E8* 48.15', +000016.40departure_name=Linatedestination_name=Campo Dell' Orowaypoint.0=LIML, A, N45* 26.96', E9* 16.70', +000354.33,waypoint.1=MA18L, I, N45* 28.63', E9* 16.43', +000000.00,waypoint.2=D035C, I, N45* 30.10', E9* 18.96', +000000.00,waypoint.3=Fix01, I, N45* 26.92', E9* 24.84', +000000.00,waypoint.4=D104L, I, N45* 24.77', E9* 33.08', +000000.00,waypoint.5=PIKOT, I, N45* 11.22', E9* 44.23', +000000.00,waypoint.6=LIN43, I, N44* 44.40', E9* 21.08', +000000.00,waypoint.7=GEN, V, N44* 25.46', E9* 4.93', +000000.00,waypoint.8=AKUTI, I, N43* 13.63', E8* 56.42', +000000.00,waypoint.9=D316M, I, N41* 55.58', E8* 34.38', +000000.00,waypoint.10=D286K, I, N41* 49.25', E8* 32.34', +000000.00,waypoint.11=D266K, I, N41* 45.45', E8* 31.82', +000000.00,waypoint.12=D246K, I, N41* 41.74', E8* 33.07', +000000.00,waypoint.13=HORRO, I, N41* 39.91', E8* 34.46', +000000.00,waypoint.14=CN02, I, N41* 43.20', E8* 40.62', +000000.00,waypoint.15=CT, N, N41* 47.73', E8* 43.45', +000000.00,waypoint.16=LFKJ, A, N41* 55.43', E8* 48.15', +000016.40,http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/118954.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/118955.jpg

>>I'm not sure what's different.>Nothing! same ATC behaviour.Well, not the same behaviour because ATC didn't say anything bad about my altitude ;)I'll fly that route and see what I can come up with.Ray?

Luigi /Peter,I'll fly this route tomorrow and see what happens. I'll be using v4 but that shouldn't make any difference for our purposes. I'll choose the ILS option rather than RC vectors and see what happens.Cheers,

Thank you both for helpingcheersLuigi ;-)

Hi Luigi,I've just completed this flight using your supplied route. I can see where you have a problem. The Minimum Safe Altitude (MSA) for LFKJ IS 7,200ft. When I requested an ILS approach into Rwy 02 I was cleared down to 7,400ft. This is correct. RC knows that there is high ground in a 30 mile radius of the airport and has quite correctly kept you above it. The one thing RC doesn't know is where that high ground is in relation to the airport. So if you know it's safe to descend you can do so without a problem and you will not be told off by RC.I was able to descend to 3,000ft by HORRO and the rest was straight-forward. So I suggest if you want to fly a full ILS approach ignore the MSA if you know it's safe to do so and you'll have no further problems.Hope that helps,

Hi Ray,with my Dash8 descending at 180 KIAS 1700 fpm couldn't cross HORRO at 3000' as handoff from center to arrival was a bit too late and i was flying at FL150.cheersLuigi ;-)