holding for traffic

[Guest abulaafia]

When holding in "ON" it seems to kick in on a random basis. I just got put on hold for "traffic saturation" at KMQY with no AI traffic anywhere in sight. Maybe there is a way to make this more realistic, i.e. dependent on the amount of AI craft in the area, or am I asking too much ? :)

[Guest Douglas Thompson]

With holding set to ON, you'll be held everytime *if* your final checkpoint is a VOR and within 5m of the destination airport (in the manual). If holding's set to Weather, it's random per the above parameters and wx conditions. Off is Off.Holding is in no way tied to AI, though we voice it is. That's just a phrase for illusion purposes. Next time it might say "...for wx..." without a cloud in the sky.I suppose it's possible, if set to Weather, we could include the # of AI in Apch airspace in the decision making process (in addition to wx conditions and checkpoints). That'd be up to John. I think the H decision's currently made up front (in the background). That'd have to change. John?

[jd 57]

if holding is on or off, i set that up frontweather hold is determined at 70-80 miles outjd

[Guest Douglas Thompson]

Can the # of AI in Apch airspace be determined at that point as well? If not, no point in pursuing...

[jd 57]

yes i can, but i only can see the closest 99 planes. i doubt many of them will be in the arrival airport's approach airspace.i can tell how many of the closes 99 planes are going to the arrival airport as well, and use that as a factor in the holding formulajd

[Guest Douglas Thompson]

OK then, I've added to the list to:1 - include the # of AI landing at our destination field in the random holding determination2 - Make "...for wx..." and "...for xfic...", voice per that determination.Sure is alot of job security around here :D

[ronzie 21]

Maybe it does not need to be random.Check the #AI within a certain radius of the aircraft for the destination field at a certain distance from destination. Check it again as you get closer. If the AI in the air count (for that destination) increases as you get closer, then AI are piling up in the air and a hold is needed. If decreasing or constant then AI is landing enough so it should not be impossible on your arrival. Of course, there have to be holding time limits.Make any sense?This would work nicely if AI Smooth is in force rather then FS9 just magicly deleting aircraft or whatever if they can't land thereby screwing up the count.Something like that.

[jd 57]

at 70 miles i have to decide to hold you or not. i can't wait until you are 65 or 60 or 55 miles outjd

[ronzie 21]

Then just do the count looking at the destinations of aircraft around that 70 mile point. For dense airports if the flightplan was submitted correctly the user aircraft probably is in a STAR headed in the general direction. If the count is high, then up your hold probability.In real world VFR GA leg arriving from the northwest to Bridgeport, Conn. (KBDR) some years ago, I crossed at 10,500 the Carmel VOR near West Point, NY. Jets for the NY airports were holding above and below me and I was a bit nervous. This point is about 60 miles north of the NY airports so it sounds like your decision point is about right.

[brucek 38]

Having a hold from ATC in FS9 sure is a nice feature.What's the logic in the VOR witin 5nm of the destination airport, vs a VOR at any point in the approach environment? Just wondering- and thanks to JD and Doug for giving us this great product.Bruce.

[jd 57]

What it boils down to, is the holding instructions itself. The holding instructions always references a distance and a radial from a point. Since ndb

[brucek 38]

Thanks JD.Bruce.

[Guest fcpilot]

Sunday I was at KLAS in a GA waiting for clearancr for take off. There were about 17 AI airliners lined up on oneside of Runway 25R, and I was lined up on the left side per my taxi directions. I was about number 10 in line per aircraft line up. With all that being said I waited for 30 minutes for a clearance I never got. Yes beings it was Vegas traffic was real heavey at 12:30 PMVegas time, and they continued to launch and recover aircraft while I waited. Somehow I got lost in there traffic.Two questions (1) ATC was not directing any traffic to runway 25L, why ?(2) I took it upon myself to taxi on to 25L and waited for ATC to holler at me. I never heard a word. So I took off and as soon as I was airborne they vectored me on to my course. Go figure.Just somewhat puzzled. Thanks Frank

[jd 57]

1) at busy airports, if i played chatter to every plane regardless of runway, i would miss some things, and it would be non stop chatter. that is why you only hear chatter to ai that are going to and from your assigned runway.2) if you are coming at a threshold from a different side than the ai, sometimes i do lose track of you. sometimes, if you inch your way closer to the threshold, you become closer to the threshold, and i see you before i see the other ai. give that a tryit might be worthwhile to dial back the ai, if you are departing a busy airportjd

[Guest fcpilot]

Thanks I'll recreate the set up and try it agian and follow your advice and see what happens. Frank