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Guest PaulL01

Starting from scratch..Top 5 Flight sims of all time...

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Having now enjoyed FS2k2 since its release, And in comparison to all prior versions since and including FS4 and all other GA Sims that I have owned including ATP, FU, ProPilot, FUII, Fly2, FUIII, Fly2k and X-plane their initial "Wow!" factor at the time of release...Here is my list of the top 5 GA sim releases respective to the "Wow!" and enjoyment factor as to the time of their release and how they have stood over time.#1. FS2k2 -very convincing sim even right out of the box: Worldwide Data and airports, AutoGen, ATC, plus special effects like Smoke, Fire, reflections, wake, surpassed my wildest Sim dreams from 1995 when I was reading about the advancements of the then Worlds best level D simulators, what we enjoy right now on our little PCs surpasses in many ways what was the very best that millions of dollars could buy, The same could be said of some of the other current offerings but nothing has jumped off the screen like FS2k2.#2.FU- the original, though very limited in areas to fly (Ironic title) the original FU was extraordinary for the time, I still miss the flexing glider wings that would creek and moan until they broke! Or the realism of the sun throwing its glare on your windscreen, even the interactive menu made it all so special. The stunning Photorealistic textures though repetitive gave us all a stunning taste of what would lay ahead... FUII/III which didn't make the list due to the fact that ultra High res scenery was available for FS9X through 3rd parties and for the even larger areas than the beautiful and more developed scenery available in the FU serries.#3. Fly/Fly2k- The original Fly series can and should be credited for pushing the development of desktop flight to our present level as at the time of its release the FS series was becoming stagnant as far as the core product, its (FS95/98) main stay was really the 3rd party support in the way of add-on aircraft, panels and scenery however the core product itself was showing its age. Fly's depth in aircraft cockpit and integrated systems along with other features made for a great leap in flight sim development and Fly

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I'd have to agree with all of your selections, although I wish there were a way to include ATP in the list, in combo with USA EAST/WEST It ranks fairly close with FS4, and helped pioneer the thought of large scale scenery...And FS-II.... It introduced the concept of PC entertainment as more than just an arcade attraction. And it created a generation of dreamers that have become today's FS developers....-John

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Why can't you?It's still around... sure, it's $75 (though not too long ago, $200 I think) and it's in version 2.... version 3 coming soon.Andrew> I wish there were a way to include ATP in the list>-John

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Hey Paul,I would completely agree with 1-4 on your list, their order and the comments specially. It almost exactly reflects how I feel/felt about flight sims through the years. My only change would be a tie for 5th spot: Flight Sim v2 that introduced me to the virtual experience of flying (it was a HUGE thought changing experience for me) - and F-15 Strike Eagle III. I include F-15 because it was the first fighter oriented sim I actually liked (they're few and far between for me).Care of :http://img.mobygames.com/images/covers/lar...61253663-00.jpgMore than 80 Airports. Wow! :-)Take care, http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/elrondlogo.gif[link:flightontario.cjb.net]http://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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Fly! 2K (with Terrascene and Sky) for its closing in on reality, particularly in the "upper landscape".FS2K2 for its overall offer.Still have a weak spot for ProPilot...FS 98

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>Fly! 2K (with Terrascene and Sky) for its closing in on >reality, particularly in the "upper landscape". >>FS2K2 for its overall offer. >>Still have a weak spot for ProPilot... >>FS 98Hey, shrink! You short changed us, where's #5? :-lolPaul

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>Hey Paul, >>I would completely agree with 1-4 on your list, their order >and the comments specially. It almost exactly reflects how >I feel/felt about flight sims through the years. My only >change would be a tie for 5th spot: Flight Sim v2 that >introduced me to the virtual experience of flying (it was a >HUGE thought changing experience for me) - and F-15 Strike >Eagle III. I include F-15 because it was the first fighter >oriented sim I actually liked (they're few and far between >for me). Hey Bud,Military sim wise for me it would be: (I dont play them much anymore, not that I ever did, too close to realty and I dont like blowing people up :))#1 -Chuck Yeagers Combat, too much fun!#2 -Falcon 3.0 -way ahead of its time.#3 -Jetfighter -I forget what version, I think it was #4? was first Sim to offer shaded flight models, the missions where fun.Take Care,Paul

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John,>I'd have to agree with all of your selections, although I >wish there were a way to include ATP in the list, in combo >with USA EAST/WEST It ranks fairly close with FS4, and >helped pioneer the thought of large scale scenery... Yes ATP was great, I still have my disks and the great manuals as there are none better, its just that ATP was only really a ramped up FS4 (well not really, since MS bought Fs4 from Sublogic) scenery could be used on both, I think because of FS4 being first to market the Wow! factor for ATP wasn't as great.Take Care,Paul

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I know... I thought about a few combat sims, probably Jane's F-18, because of the atmosphere of landings and things. I remember the comments of the LSO during final. Wasn't sure, was long ago, was in a hurry, so I, well, stopped there.

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I spent a "few" hours flying Thailon ? Airbus A320 it had Loadsa books and charts and everything and you could go through the company Lufthansa i think it was and get promotion.It was a old program but all my first computer would run :)Green ground blue sky white runway

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I still have ATP installed on my HD, and FS4. I feel it bad luck to remove either...I don't want to insult the ancestors to today's breed of flightsims! :)

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Funny how nobody mentions FS2000 :-lolIT would win the Oskar for Most Stuttering Sim.Anyone with P4 2.2GHZ or some HighEnd AMD dare to install it and see if it stutters? ;-)Andy

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FWIW, I still have the E/W maps that came with the disks...I used to use them for quick reference of mavigation points, until better software solutions came along...Sherman KaplanHighland Park Il

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Paul,I will keep my criticism of certain aspects of your own Top 5 firmly in check here ! :-lolMy top 5 would be:-#1. FLIGHT UNLIMITED 3 -- You are already WELL aware that this would be my top pick, but you might not know that this must include the San Francisco scenery area from FU2. Frankly, this is better than the Seattle scenery in FU3, since it has a better variety of terrain, a wonderful Pacific coastline, and more convincing textures. To be honest, FU3 is little more than a supercharged version of FU2, but then FU2 was a revelation in flight simulators.#2. FLIGHT UNLIMITED 2 -- Now that was a difficult one to work out ! The San Francisco Bay area terrain is still the best scenery in ANY flight simulator (in my humble opinion), and the superb ATC, wonderful floatplane physics, and fantastic weather effects were miles ahead of anything seen before. Easily the greatest advance in GA flight simulators ever made.#3. FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2002 -- Now don't tell me that this wasn't a shock, Paul ! It has taken me a while to start liking FS2002, but it's all beginning to come together now. It's worth noting that I'm only interested in flying around UK airspace, but that allows me to concentrate on developing a relatively small area with quality add-ons. Gary Summons' UK 2000 airports are incredible, and an upcoming photorealistic scenery package covering England and Wales is looking VERY PROMISING !#4. FLIGHT SIMULATOR 4 -- You are already well aware that I prefer the admittedly basic graphics of FS4 to the awful mess of shimmering textures that were included in FS5. Mallard produced some decent add-ons (Hawaii and Tahiti were the best), and I just preferred the uncluttered look.#5. FLIGHT UNLIMITED -- I really should have spent far more time with this one than I actually did. The graphics and flight physics were revolutionary for their time, but the limited options available to the user restricted its appeal. Still a classic though.Best Wishes,Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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- FS2K2 - Sometimes I get bored of it but I always come back to it! It's flexible enough to allow addons like PIC and DF Archer and others. Between it and its predecessors, I estimate I have about 6000 hours. - PS1.3 - The only sim that doesn't attempt to entertain (but does!). The DOS interface is just too painful now though.- Falcon 4 - great out of the box IMO but even better now with all the "patches"!- Fly! - the sequel didn't work for me but I vividly recall the thrill of stumbling through the Baron cockpit, blindly flicking switches, while a gentle rain tapped on the windshield.- Microprose F19 - an oldy but I think it was the first serious sim I bought (even more serious than MSFS4). It had a thick manual, tons of charts, and about a dozen disks! Ahhh how I miss the old Microprose!Other honorable mentions: Chuck Yeagers first sim (so smooth!), ATP (I still use the manual and tables), European Airwar, B17 2 (I've forgotten how to fly it now but I was pretty immersed in it when I bought it)David

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I haven't been into flightsims for very long...but here are the top 3 sims for me.I have used FU, FU2, FU3, FS98, FS2000, FS2002 and Fly!.For me, #1 is Flight Unlimited (the original, for DOS). It was released in 1995 and the graphics were quite spectacular for its time. It also included fully working virtual cockpits for all planes, something it took Microsoft another 7 years or so to implement. The flight dynamics, from what I can tell, was also very good.#2 Is Flight Unlimited II. The scenery looked even better than in FU. The weather effects were pretty good, and it included ATC and AI planes. The ATC and AI was buggy, but way ahead of its time. Compared to FS98 (released at about the same time), it was just a whole different world.#3 goes to FS2002. The scenery graphics is not as good as the Flight Unlimited series, but it is amazing considering that the entire world is included right out of the box. Even the scenery where I live (Sweden...middle of nowhere) is pretty good, with most major roads, lakes, islands and towns included. The US scenery looks even better. It also contains some nice special effects, though the price for "best raindrops" still goes to Flight II :)

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Paul,Not an easy one!#1 FS2002 - The best FlightSim in a long time. Not perfect but the most complete sim out there. As usual most if it's shortcomings have been addressed by the third-party developers and I reckon it'll keep getting better (until FS2004 comes out and we'll all have to start again!).#2 Flanker 2.5 - originaly came out at the same time as FS2000 and was miles ahead of it graphically, as well as retaining the detail that made Flanker 1 so stunning.#3 Falcon 4 - Like a good whiskey it has got better with age. The most ambitious combat sim ever made.#4 Fly!2K - Showed FS2000 a thing or two. Shame Fly!2 didn't get the chance it deserved (two steps forward, three back!).#5 Longbow 2 - Great graphics, great gameplay. Felt like you were actually flying a helicopter, unlike some other sims I could mention.Great subject for a post! It's made me think about all the sims I've owned, and there are many that I haven't mentioned above which are just as worthy. I'll stick with these five for now though :-)Iain Spowart,Scotland.Webmaster and photographer,Scottish Claymores 2002Cheerleaders Fan Sitehttp://www.claymorescheerleaders.com/media/avsim/2002-s.jpghttp://ClaymoresCheerleaders.com

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#1 FS2002 ---- best all around flight sim period!#2 Orignal FLY with TerraScene2, SKY, & the V88's .... love those mountains!#3 Flight Unlimited 2 or 3 (about the same, IMO)....water landings!#4 CFS1 when run in combination of Pacific Northwest Mega Scenery#5 Pro-Pilot series--------- giving credit where it's due. Use of topography mesh, realistic panels with startup sequence, much improved clouds in version two & ATC along with co-pilot.Honorable mentions:IL-2 Sturmvovik --- has an "airplane" feelFS5.0CFS2 ----- light & shawdow effects

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How about Fs 1.0?I still remember after spending hours with "final flight" where all you did was line up with a single line on the screen -and then a message would say "you landed" or "you are dead", putting fs1.0 in and being overwhelmed and blown away with an aircraft panel, runways, night lighting, and a couple major airports like jfk and ord.Fs 1.0 is really what set me on my love/obsession of real flying-it was genius, ground breaking, and way ahead of its time. Also a real hog-.5 frames on a commodore 64.After that-atp by sublogic pushed the limit.Then jetfighter-and the fs version for the amiga.FU1 was a real ground breaker, followed by pro pilot '99 which was the first sim to have realistic clouds and a 3d real world scenery engine that is now taken for granted (not to mention built in atc (with bugs) and realistic aircraft panels (although limited). I truly believe that all we owe to sims today was in Pro Pilot '99-and it pushed the other manufacturers to include and improve these ground breaking features.Fly I next, fuIII and yes-I'll vote for fs2000 which had an easy and workable real weather download-something I had been complaining about for years.Fs2002 for now!Geofhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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Chris,>My top 5 would be:- >>#1. FLIGHT UNLIMITED 3 -- You are already WELL aware that >this would be my top pick, but you might not know that this >must include the San Francisco scenery area from FU2. >Frankly, this is better than the Seattle scenery in FU3, >since it has a better variety of terrain, a wonderful >Pacific coastline, and more convincing textures. Yeah, :) no surprize and if I had not seen or been involved developing some of the ultra highres stuff for FS way back when, FUII/III would be on the list, it just didnt have the great impact that was there for so many as I was already enjoying that type of detail covering a larger area in my own back yard here in the east (NY), But you are right, it was the whole product that made it a stunner. I agree with you about FUIII, As I have worked with satellite data quite a bit, it bothered me to see that Peter and his gang had used high res B&W with a low res false color overlay that was rushed out the door, but concidering the ultra high cost and availability of the time period for that Data they almost pulled it off.>To be >honest, FU3 is little more than a supercharged version of >FU2, but then FU2 was a revelation in flight simulators. >>#2. FLIGHT UNLIMITED 2 -- Now that was a difficult one to >work out ! The San Francisco Bay area terrain is still the >best scenery in ANY flight simulator (in my humble opinion), >and the superb ATC, wonderful floatplane physics, and >fantastic weather effects were miles ahead of anything seen >before. Easily the greatest advance in GA flight simulators >ever made. >>#3. FLIGHT SIMULATOR 2002 -- Now don't tell me that this >wasn't a shock, Paul ! It has taken me a while to start >liking FS2002, but it's all beginning to come together now. >It's worth noting that I'm only interested in flying around >UK airspace, but that allows me to concentrate on developing >a relatively small area with quality add-ons. Gary Summons' >UK 2000 airports are incredible, and an upcoming >photorealistic scenery package covering England and Wales is >looking VERY PROMISING !I fully understand the impact of being able to fly in your own area has and am glad that you are starting to enjoy it.:) side note: John C. has a great new utility that will allow you to change/add/modify FS2k2's landclass textures, very easy and simple to use, find the area in Fs2k2 where your favorite little town seems to be missing, right down the Lat and Lon coordinates, punch in the right numbers and presto! do a search here in the library "landclass" something. >>#4. FLIGHT SIMULATOR 4 -- You are already well aware that I >prefer the admittedly basic graphics of FS4 to the awful >mess of shimmering textures that were included in FS5. >Mallard produced some decent add-ons (Hawaii and Tahiti were >the best), and I just preferred the uncluttered look.FS4 was certainly convincing enough for a while thats for sure! :)I understand you dislike of the texture wierdness in Fs5, but being able to realize flying through the first photoreal Terrain of Miegs field, SanfranSisco, Washington DC, NYC and then LasVegas, was first realized on FS5 which demonstrated endless possabilities that caused quite a few of us to fork over thousands of dollars for satellite data and airport diagrams and.. and...:) >>#5. FLIGHT UNLIMITED -- I really should have spent far more >time with this one than I actually did. The graphics and >flight physics were revolutionary for their time, but the >limited options available to the user restricted its appeal. >Still a classic though. Yep, a great one!Take Care Chris,Paul

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Geof,>FU1 was a real ground breaker, followed by pro pilot '99 >which was the first sim to have realistic clouds and a 3d >real world scenery engine that is now taken for granted (not >to mention built in atc (with bugs) and realistic aircraft >panels (although limited). I truly believe that all we owe >to sims today was in Pro Pilot '99-and it pushed the other >manufacturers to include and improve these ground breaking >features.You make a valid point, looking back I cant quite remember what exactly i didnt like in PP99, I believe it was the lack of certain video card support or somthing, I believe PP99 featured "Glide"?Anyway, you are right without PP we probably would be behind by a year or so.Take Care,Paul

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Hi David,"- PS1.3 - The only sim that doesn't attempt to entertain (but does!). The DOS interface is just too painful now though.'I have to agree- is there a Windows 9x/XP version on the way, do you know?An excellent sim, would be great if it migrated to Windows.Bruce.

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