Hello,Could someone please give me a definitive absolute max range of the 737's being modeled with this sim? Would I be able to fly from Los Angeles to Hawaii with real world winds aloft?I am thinking about buying the PMDG package but just wanted to make sure I could simulate oceanic flights of this length. Los Angeles to Hawaii would be about the longest flight I would want to make and I'm just wondering if the 737s modeled in this package would be able to do that with real weather in FS2004.Thank you. I hope I am not asking too many questions!

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/technical.html

The NG at flight levels equal to and greater than 370 (where it belongs) will burn next to nothing (i.e. around 4,000-4,400 lbs/hr). Since max allowed fuel load is over 40,000 lbs you get a theoretical autonomy of around 8 1/2 hours plus one hour reserves. At around 450 knots ground speed you get a range over 3,600 nautical miles. If you get tail wind even better.Question is you have to replace pax and cargo with fuel (MTOW 153,400 lbs) to do this and therefore in reality any airline will consider the economics of it all. For example, a 767 will carry more than twice the amount of passengers and burn slightly less than twice the amount of fuel for the same trip. However, as a theoretical exercise you sure can do this.Vangelis===================================== E. M. Vaos Precision Manuals Development Group www.precisionmanuals.com=====================================

the longest journey that a real airline flies today is Aloha with their non wingleted 737-700 from Honolulu to Vancouver.http://www.itn.net/gif/itn/logo/air/aq.gifFlight: 492Cabin class: 1st Y, Coach Y Distance: 2704 miStops: non-stop Flight Time: 5:45i tried to make the trip, however without a tweak of the aircraft.cfg, the trip was not possible. fuel_flow_scalar= 0.5 and you'll make it ;)the 737NG FF should be around 2800 lbs / hour and enginecheers

Martin,The fuel flow data of the model have been tuned to within 100 lbs/h per engine as per AOM (that is the Boeing AOM not info from my buddy Jon Doe who happens to know a few things 'bout planes n' stuff). We were also fortunate enough to have the model cross-validated by a couple of FAA flight dispatchers with real flight plans in hand (fuel predictions etc). It can therefore get extremely annoying when I see somebody, (anybody) standing up and suggesting modify this or that based on I don't know what information. Users of this product deserve much better treatment than this. OK ?Vangelis===================================== E. M. Vaos Precision Manuals Development Group www.precisionmanuals.com=====================================

>Martin,>>The fuel flow data of the model have been tuned to within 100>lbs/h per engine as per AOM (that is the Boeing AOM not info>from my buddy Jon Doe who happens to know a few things 'bout>planes n' stuff). >>We were also fortunate enough to have the model>cross-validated by a couple of FAA flight dispatchers with>real flight plans in hand (fuel predictions etc). It can>therefore get extremely annoying when I see somebody,>(anybody) standing up and suggesting modify this or that based>on I don't know what information. Users of this product>deserve much better treatment than this. OK ?>>Vangelis>>=====================================> E. M. Vaos> Precision Manuals Development Group> www.precisionmanuals.com>=====================================>hey, no, it's not OK. it was not thought as any critics, just improvment to make it over the ocean. that's what i payed for. to hava a bird that flies where i want it to fly, and more if it is a realistic route i want it to get there. fact is, you don't make the leg by default. you run out of fuel. and i hate to take a KC-10 with me on my right wing. we would actually need performance data of Aloha to get accuracy on this (pax loadout, fuelload etc.). so what is so extremely annoying my friend? certainly nice if your product is FFA certified, but does this change anything for my flight from Vancouver to Honolulu. certainly not.maybe SU2 will give some changes. till then, any user that would like to fly this route, has the right to get this information on how to tweak the aricraft.cfg to fullfill the route. that's all.did i say it is a bad product because of that? NOstop finger pointing at me. what about giving us customers some information about SU2? might be better.

Martin-your so called "improvement" breaks realism. As such, Vangelis indicated that it should not misinform other users. Your proposed tweak will make our aircraft burn something other than realistic Jet A1 fuel, thus achieving YOUR desired results, but not necessary what is realistic for the real world.Please refrain from offering such "improvements" in the future, without clearly marking them as a deviation from realism.

Martin, You forget to mention that you use this NG's PANEL with the ARAINE MODEL, is that not correct? So are you saying that you cannot fly 2600 miles in THIS un-modified aircraft?? Hey maybe it's that Araine Nose shape causing you to loose MPG [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

I hope I didn't make anyone made by asking about this. I do understand PMDG's commitment to realism and I appreciate that a lot, it's a major characteristic that's attracted me to your 737 package. With my being a veteran 767PIC owner with FS2002, your software add-on is the only aircraft I've even considered since purchasing FS2004. Uncompromised realism in simulation is my rule, not my exception.In all honesty though, I do enjoy being able to 'tweak' flight dynamics just a little - in this instance to increase the 737 range for some trans-oceanic flights. Knowing that this is possible (from the kind responses of 737 owners on this forum), has actually steered me even more in the direction of purchasing your product. I hope that PMDG keeps an even minded perspective on this because shared user input and 'tweaks' really serve to broaden the appeal of your product among a greater variety of potenital customers I think. I do understand that PMDG will eventually release a 737 model with the long range characteristics of modern day business jets and I certainly could have simply waited until that time to purchase that future product. However, knowing I can 'have my cake and eat it too' with the current 737 package available (albeit with maybe a few range increasing tweak) makes me eager to purchase your product right now. I just wanted to offer my personal insight into this discussion. :)

Thank you very much for that information!

YO!I believe that the longest 737-700 flight is with Astraeus, a Uk charter airline that operates from Gatwick.In this months edition of Airliner World (an aviation magazine), there is a section on Astraeus, and it says it flies from Gatwick to Malabo with a flightime of just under 8 hours. For comfort Astraeus keep the middle seat in every row empty, also this helps with fuel consumption.:)Bye.Alex.

>> Martin,>> You forget to mention that you use this NG's PANEL with the>ARAINE MODEL, is that not correct? So are you saying that you>cannot fly 2600 miles in THIS un-modified aircraft?? Hey maybe>it's that Araine Nose shape causing you to loose MPG >>>>> >[h4]Best Wishes,>Randy J. Smith>http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

no Randy, i tried this leg with the PMDG 737-700. with the BBJ model, just fyi im make all the way from Seattle to Jeddah without refueling6500 nm. of course with tweaking the defaultsbut of course i use the PMDG panel for the Ariane and FFX models too. a great panel ;)

Hi Martin,>the longest journey that a real airline flies today is Aloha with their non wingleted 737-700 from Honolulu to Vancouver.Flight: 492Cabin class: 1st Y, Coach Y Distance: 2704 miStops: non-stop Flight Time: 5:45i tried to make the trip, however without a tweak of the aircraft.cfg, the trip was not possible. fuel_flow_scalar= 0.5 and you'll make it the 737NG FF should be around 2800 lbs / hour and enginehttp://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

I was flying t FL370weather was "calm"full pay load / 90% paxi can give you some more detailed specs later if you are interested in. currently i am at work, i a can't access my reports.how many pax and payload did you use?as i said, probably we should ask the dispatchers of Aloha, how they are doing it. in regards to the flightlevel, i beleive, that for westward flight, FL370 is quite correct. right?definitely your panel indicates a FF of 2800. maybe i missunderstand this indication!?do you mind if we stick in another thread, cuz this is going off topici believe me, i will no being comparing pears and apples. whatever thirdparty i might be using the panel for, while posting in here i am referring to the PMDG model only.cheers

"but of course i use the PMDG panel for the Ariane and FFX models too. a great panel ;)" Wait until the next update! ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg