Ian,not sure what you mean. What has "LIMITS the thrust lever rates to 3deg/sec." to do with more swift power increase in VNAV than in LVL CHG ?Who has said VNAV uses more than 3 deg/sec ? Maybe for LVL/CHG less than 3 deg/sec is used ?If I take it how a pilots answers to my questions (which I thought might be valuable for the accuracy of the PMDG NG) are dismantled here, I shall better stop posting such things in future. I don't have the time to read a dozen times through my posts to find out if and how something can be misinterpreted, especially if I "think" in German and need to write in English.Mike

Sorry... Not sure how I can re-word this to make it more understandable, Mike.When you say "swift" power increase, do you mean:The power is greater with a particular mode, or..The power increases more quickly? (e.g. full thrust in 10 seconds or full thrust in 15 seconds) If you mean the latter, really the only way to make power increase more quickly is to move the throttles faster. This is what the A/T is doing... moving the throttles. As far as I know, the 737NG A/T computer has no direct influence on the EEC's/engines. It has to act via the thrust levers.Hope this makes sense.Cheers.Ian.

Ian,as far I have understood it (have to be careful now), the power increases more quickly.What I don't understand is this : If you mention an upper limit of 3 deg/sec, than we have a (theoretical) range of 0 to 3 deg/sec in other modes than TOGA. That is what you said.Now if obviously the pilots have observed this more quickly power increase in one mode, the two modes in question use a different setting inside this range (that's how I would interprete it). I don't see, where the pilot has said, this 3 deg/sec limit will be exceeded in one of the modes ?Then how can you make assumptions he has said something wrong ? Or do you have a statement in your maintenance manual BOTH modes use 3 deg/sec indefinitely ? I haven't read that in your initial message.Mike

LOL, I think he meant *quickly* also Ian. So Ian, I see you did not get hooked and sinkered into the original discussion like this old dog ;)Mike, I refuse for our sakes to get more involved until I get more information about overspeed etc. It's a grey area to desktop simmers so I would like to explore it more and really we will only go round in circles and we don't want that ;).........................Cheers,[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Randy,Got a third answer just minutes ago, again says (almost) the same. Maybe we shall make a survey at pprune : Do NG pilots get overspeeding tickets. LOL !But Ok, let me know what you find out.Mike

Are you saying that the NG never overspeeds? I hope you did not mean to imply this Mike. I might not know what the aircraft does when pushing LVL CH at 250/5000 as regards to thrust and increase in SPEED but I do know the NG does overspeed in other modes..................Have a nice day [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Sigh, that overspeeding ticket remark was meant as a joke.Mike

Not sure about the overspeeding, but I have certainly seen several reports of the real NG AP not being overly concerned with PAX comfort in the pprune forum-climbing, descending or banking too steeply:http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.ph...&threadid=65484Best,Martijn

Well, it's not an Airbus, it's a low budget plane with a long options list ;)Seriously, I know this threads and heard similar remarks from the 737 driver I chatted with (too much bank angle for small heading change, frequent VNAV disconnects with tailwind, uncomfortable speedbrake usage, etc.). The PMDG NG is probably better with LOC intercepts than the real thing ;-). But if the real plane would overspeed 250 kt below 10000 ft during climb without being asked to do so, that would have raised a lot more eyebrows.The impression I got goes like the old phrase of "know your airplane" - choose the appropriate mode for a particular scenario and avoid the weak areas if possible. Then the 737 NG flies like a charm, at least that's what the pilot said.I have 3 sheets of paper here with remarks how that particular crew flies the NG in several scenarios and together with the pprune threads and Bulfers book that forms into a nice picture of personal NG flying style for me. And that is not just VNAV and that's it.However, if I take the promising remarks here in the Forum about SU2 (maybe close to Bulfer compatibility :-) ??), the PMDG crew gives us the flexibility to do all this in FS. And I couldn't think about any other addon that would offer so much flexibility then.Mike

Hi Randy>> until I get more information about overspeed etc. It's a grey area to desktop simmers so I would like to explore it more just wondering, did you get any infos regarding that ? It's just an interesting subject for me (how do the different jets behave in some situations), that's why I ask for the conclusion you might have got.Mike

It might not speed like you say (notice I said might since I am not sure but I know other crafts like the 744 do not) BUT that was not the major part of my issue with your post, which was the RATE of climb which I completely stand by and am correct in fact ;) So one for you and one for me haha..............[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Mike,As far as I can see there has been improvements regarding climb rate changes in VNAV in SU2. It does not behave as pronounced as you are describing it in your original post above!Hope it helps,

Randy,>> which was the RATE of climb which I completely stand by and am correct in fact didn't we have a misunderstanding there regarding the theoretical climb rate available or the MAYBE practically used one (CLB-1, or CLB-2, depending on weight) ? Sounds like you meant the theoretical climb rate and I (or the NG pilot) meant the latter ?Anyway, which values did you get ? Or in other words, using CLB-2 at 250 kt below 10000, what climb rate would I get in SU2 let's say at a higher weight (just a guesstimate) ?>> So one for you and one for me haha..............LOL ;) ! Wasn't meant like that, as I said, just a bit of extra hobby to find out what the different jets do.Mike

Mats,>> there has been improvements regarding climb rate changes in VNAV in SU2Ok, sounds good to me. We don't want to do any bean counting ;)Are the holdings been improved, too (e.g. regarding staying on the magenta holding track) ?Mike

Tons of work in this area Mike but as you know nothing is like the real thing in this regard, even PIC simplifies the ND drawing at points ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg