Sign in to follow this  
Guest Scott Campbell

So When Did We All Decide to Kill Freeware?

Recommended Posts

Well it seems like the trend is clear enough: freeware is dying. Two years ago, you'd be hard-pressed to find a payware flightsim addon, but now it seems to be going the other way. More and more developers are switching, usually with less-than-wonderful results. So my question is, how much longer? When will the day come that planes are sold one-per-CD at the local EB? We should see something close buy the time FS2004 comes around. After all, look how much things have change since FS2000 was released.You know, it's really sad that our society places money on such a high pedestal. Flightsim is a hobby, not a profession. I say keep it that way.Adam Stanger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I've yet to see a freeware aircraft even approach payware addons like 767PIC, the PSS Airbus, or anything put out by Dreamfleet. Who has the time and energy to make something like those without getting anything in return?? I'll gladly pay $30 to get a near expact recreation of a real airliner - why should we expect people to give that to us free???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hello,there was lots of payware for FS98 also: Ralph Tofflemeier's panels, Aeti's Proflight98, Abacus' aircraft, Safari's sceneries, Wilco's Airport2000, Aerosoft's German Airports, Lago's Mad Dog, Flight1's Flight Director, Just Flight's Concorde, Apollo's Advanced Glass Cockpit... payware is nothing new at all. And it didn't kill freeware so far.yours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ProjectAI had several generous offers to make it payware. They kept it Freeware!Frank Cubilloswww.FSGateway.comHome of FSVC and ProjectAI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have tons of great freeware planes in my hangar.Just a few of them:PA23Piper WarriorFalcon 50Lear 35Twin BonanzaBell UH-1HBell 47Tons of A320, A330, A340, B767, B747, B737...Even a couple of Tu-154B-2 and IlyushinATR42Beech1900DJetstream41MirageP180 Avantirj85TrikeExtra 400and many more.I'd say Freeware is alive and well :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that Lennart was disgusted when a set of payware textures was released, and as a lover of Lennarts work I tended to have sympathy, because I wouldn't have the pleasure of alternative textures without his work.However, perhaps not all artists are well able to be benevolent - you have skills, you need to make a living, money isn't always easily made, at least honestly, and some parts of the world offer less opportunities and little in the way of social security.I am not saying that all shareware/payware authors do need to make money at this work - just that possibly some might, and for very good reasons be glad to receive payment. That takes away nothing of my indebtedness and gratitude to every freeware artist who's work is on my harddrive, available from the file libraries at this site or at others. Hope I havn't spoken out of turn, if so, my apoloigies.PH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... and I also do not believe that freeware products are by definition of less quality or depth than payware ones. There are plenty of examples of outstanding software packages that are still provided free and are just as good or even better than many payware titles. How about the Yannick/Banting aircraft? The FS2000 (and 2002) Beavers. The Falcon 50 ! The POSKY aircraft!? Scott Campbell's ACLoader? The Bell 47G helicopter? The beautiful trees you can download? Chris Willis' clouds and other add-ons? Don Moser's and Naji's bush sceneries !!? The list is endless.Sure, a lot of succesful developers 'go commercial', often lured by some of the few add-on publishers in this industry, but there will always be plenty of freeware authtors too. People that do (at least part of) what they do because they like doing it, and who will not be bothered with commercial deadlines and other limitations.I wouldn't worry too much.... ;-) :-outta Francois :-wave[table border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0][tr][td valign=bottom" align="center]"At home in the wild"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:avsim.com/alaska/alaska_051.htm|Don's Alaskan Bush Charters]"Beavers Lead the Way"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:www.avsim.com/vfr_center/mainpages/vfr_flights_main_page.htm]VFR Flight Center]"Looking Good Outside"[/td][/tr][tr][td valign=top" align="center]http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif[/td][td valign="top" align="left" colspan=2]http://www.fssupport.com/images/moose2.gif[/td][tr][/table]________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online![/bemail: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is kinda of a presumptious Subject line, don't you think so?Just who is the "WE" that decided to kill freeware, Adam? You seem to have had a thing for payware products,for a while, is this your way to troll for a few derrogatory statements? This subject has been hashed and rehashed ad-nauseum so give it a rest and post something positive!http://members.cox.net/pstepanoff/images/OK_c2.gifPete S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone has made a decision to "kill" freeware. I certainly haven't, as I have no plans to ever go commercial. It's my bobby, and I do it simply because I enjoy it. On the other hand I don't for a minute begrudge anyone elses decision to go commercial. There are lots of reasons why a freeware developer may do so. I think part of the problem here is that people who aren't directly involved in flight sim development don't (they can't reallY) have a true appreciation for the amount of effort involved in creating a functional 3d model. I know I have spent 200+ hours on a single design, and I don't do VC's or complex panels. I've seen complaints about paying $20-$30 dollars for a commercial aircraft package that took many more hours than that to build. By comparison, ask a carpenter to give you a bid on a 200 hour construction project and see what get. And it is a simple fact that many "commercial" developers get barely enough income to cover their expenses. I don't think any commercial flight sim developers are likely to challenge Bill Gates' status in the near future.So (IMHO) if you want to see freeware continue, don't take it for granted. When someone gives you a freeware aircraft, scenery, utility, whatever, they are giving you hours out of their life. I've seen a number of freeware developers that have been driven commercial or quit altogether because of the way they are treated for giving something away free. Don't act like you have a "right" to get something for nothing. If you do, noone likely to give it to you.Mike Stone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we profess to live in a democratic world then we also profess to have freedom of choice.Developers are free to charge for their work if they so desire and users may choose not to pay to obtain that work if they so desire.David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The (virtual) sky is falling! The (virtual) sky is falling! Jeez, you guys are making me work overtime today ;)Max Cowgill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My work will ALWAYS be FREEWARE or it won't be at all. Don Moser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't there is enough around, look at the great work for example FSW / Falcon50 / FSbuild / Landclass Assistant /AFCAD / Traffictools / etc... :-)However if a product is really good then I'm willing to pay a few bucks for all the development hours and efforts they made to make us happy :-) So in short I'll believe there will be always freeware / shareware / payware around... :-)Happy flying and yes it's only a hobby :-)awfEHAM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been looking at this irritating post much too long now! :-fumeIn the first place............... two years ago, the models were not near as complex; such as exterior, interior, flight modeling, detailed virtual cockpit, & many more working parts. So what does two years ago have to do with today? We are now looking at far more hours in development & research!More and more developers are switching, usually with less-than-wonderful results.Says who??? When I hear of payware developments such those from Dreamfleet, FSD, PSS, Flight1, Real Air simulations, & a few others....... I can usually count on a product that's involved a number of individuals doing what they do best in a combined effort. That way, I can usually count on a released product with an exceptional exterior, VC cockpit, manuals, re-fined flight dynamics, new inovations, & product support. This DOES happen to a degree in the freeware community as evidenced with the Falcon 50. But as usually is the case, will the developers of the Falcon 50 continue to release new freeware products of this calibur year after year? The answer is NO! You know, it's really sad that our society places money on such a high pedestal. Flightsim is a hobby, not a profession. I say keep it that way. What a "crock". If you want more realism & support then prepare to pay for it!!!! L.Adamson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would only wish that devolopers at least sell their creations at reasonable prices. Many are not IMHO. :-(There are numerous addons I would purchase if they were offered at a price I could justify once converted to Canadian currency. I would also think that many of these addons would sell more copies and thus we all would win.SteveCYYZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flightsim is a hobby, not a profession. I say keep it that way. Adam's post seems to imply that people don't spend money on their hobbies. Oh yeah....ask a golfer, skier, equestrian, bicyclist, etc. Everybody who is seriously into a pursuit as a hobby will spend money beyond their initial investment (golf clubs, skis/poles, horse/tack, bicycle, etc.) Why should flight simming be any different. But I am amazed at the quality of the freeware that I've downloaded in just the last week..... wonderfully detailed scenery areas, some great planes, even an automobile and a motorcycle!!Freeware is not dead...... it's not dying (as far as I can see). I suspect Adam found something he wanted, then discovered it was payware and got a little ticked off. :-lol -Lindy :-rotor wannabe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is worse is killing whales ,foxes , badgers ,mooses ect and these things actually happen you know !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with both Adam and Steve. And thank you Donmo. I appreciate your great work and glad to hear you plan on continuing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>I would only wish that devolopers at least sell their creations at >reasonable prices. Many are not IMHO. >There are numerous addons I would purchase if they were offered at a price I could justify once converted to Canadian currency.I don't know what you mean by reasonable. Most Commercial add-ons are in the $20 to $40 (US) range. That seems resonable to me. >I would also think that many of these addons would sell more copies >and thus we all would win.A lower price would probably result in more sales, but that may not be enough income to make up for the lower price.For example if you sell a product at $30, and sell 3,000 units.To make the same income at $20 you'd have to sell 1,500 more units.That's 1,500 more units you'd have to sell just to have the exact same income at the lower sale price. I can't imagine anyone lowering the price in that situation unless they were sure the lower price would result in double the sales. More sales may not result in more income, if so there's no benefit in lowering the price. You just end up with the same income but more demanding customers to support. There's of course the risk that you don't sell the required 1,500 extra units, then you have less income than if you just kept the price where it originally was.These are the factors the commercial or shareware developer has to take into account when setting the price.Regards.Ernie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adam,You've always been good at whipping up a storm ! Let me ask, have you ever produced anything ? Spent perhaps the best part of 200 hours + ? If so and it's good, why not ask a penny or two, after all it's our choice to buy it or not, as it is your choice to share it or indeed sell it. Consider this, if you've actually SPENT money on the tools to create something, whats wrong with recouping some of your investment if you believe in it ?As a lot of people here have said, there have been some terrific add ons created by freeware designers, (funnily enough I've just down loaded a FREE scenery by a PAYWARE designer.....Silverstone by Barry Perfect....Thanks Barry !)and long will it continue. As one designer leaves the freeware arena, two more come in and on it goes. Some leave because even as freeware, users decide to launch attacks...(very sad and not condusive to enhancement of the hobby,) some leave because they get harrased to death to do this or do that. Remember most have family and other lives as well.When I see a designer pummeled in forums for doing basically nothing, I wonder what kind of toe rags we have in this a so called community. Interestingly, they always seem to hide behind nick names. I wonder again, what have they ever given us ?If we are to look at the whole arena, lets look closely at the commercials. Crap products, even crappier service and an attitude that says "How dare you little man even think to ask for a bug fix". Again,in respect of the freeware guys, give tham support.....they can only get better !Remember this Adam, todays freeware is tomorrows payware, without freeware there would be NO commercial outfits, I just wish the commercials would remember this, instead of the pig ignorant, arrogant attitudes shown by most when it comes to........arghhh forget it, I know a little more than most in this subject, so it's best not to harp on.On a final note, what Mike Stone says is perfectly true, I stand by his every word, he's one guy who has made my FS experiences a joy......just watch his planes in AI....superb !Calm down Adam, take a trip to Glastonbury,go Dutch, take a Grolsch or two, chill a little, it's not good for your blood pressure. George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I just ask what the big deal is with everyone and payware? Personally, I have yet to see a panel that rivals the complexity of the Dreamfleet Archer, the functionality of the DF 734 or FSD's Cheyenne. Personally, seeing as I spend more time at the panel of the aircraft than on the outside staring at the model, the panel is the most important part. In very few packages from freeware developers (the standout example being the Debonair), the panel is simple, non-functional, and doesn't serve much of a purpose. So why is there some form of taboo around supporting people who have worked their butts off to make a product that furthers our hobby. I mean, if you are a GA fan and you have never flown FSD's Cheyenne or the DF Archer, you're really missing out on a whole new dimenion of simming that can be achieved with a small amount of money.Scott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see Adams response to these posts.Freeware is definitely not dead. Many good quality payware products on my PC for very reasonable prices.Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this