why do you say HEAVY for example for a 747

[michal 44]

Yes, 757-300 would be heavy but not 757-200. The definition of "heavy" is very clear - it must have MTOW above 255,000 lbs. If you look how ATC folks write about separations (or look at FAA's docs) due to wake they always say "heavy/757". In other words either "heavy" or "757". If they treated 757 as heavy they would not be doing this heavy/757 stuff. In fact "heavy" has very much to do with ground operations, stress on pavement, etc. Ask any controller the reasons they use this nomenclature and they tell you about seperating traffic on the ground, etc.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

[Guest rcarlson123]

I heard that only certain carriers have 757s that are capable of MTOW over 255,000 pounds. I heard that they were custom-made for these carriers and ended up with a greater carrying capacity, thus they qualify as "heavy" aircraft. Perhaps it was a cargo carrier? Not sure. I also heard, as stated above, that it's only the -300 variant that is considered heavy. Not sure which, if not both, is correct.Anyway, 757s and heavies are treated the same in terms of the time delay needed after takeoff before clearing the next aircraft for takeoff. (2 minutes in both cases.) However, 757s and heavies are treated differently in other areas, such as in-trail separation during the approach and landing phases of flight. Different amounts are required for each.Also note that in order to be classified as a heavy, the aircraft must only be capable of MTOW greater than 255,000 pounds, regardless of the actual MTOW for the given flight or at any given moment. I assume this is because even when not fully loaded, the wake vortex characteristics of the wings still create nasty turbulence. Gurus, please correct me if I'm wrong there. :)

[Guest rcarlson123]

>In fact "heavy" has very much to do with ground>operations, stress on pavement, etc. Ask any controller the>reasons they use this nomenclature and they tell you about>seperating traffic on the ground, etc.Interesting ... I've never heard of the heavy weight class as having anything to do with separation during ground operations or pavement issues. The closest I've seen while reading the FAA 7110.65 document is that the Tower controller cannot taxi a small class aircraft into position to hold behind a departing heavy.That said, ground controllers certainly must consider heavies when issuing taxi instructions, since the order can greatly impact the number of departures the tower can squeeze into a given timeframe. If GND were to taxi a heavy before any other aircraft, then the other aircraft has to wait 2 minutes before departing after the heavy. The same is not true in reverse, so it makes more sense to taxi the smaller aircraft ahead of the heavy, if given the option.Note that I have not read all of the 7110.65, so I might have missed the stuff you refer to, but your post has me curious, because I'm an ATC instructor on VATSIM, and I like to learn as much as I can.

[Guest ogogog]

heavy behind heavy 4 miles, 757 behind heavy 5 miles, large behind heavy 5 miles, small behind heavy 6 miles.heavy behind 757 4 miles, 757 behind 757 4 miles, large behind 757 4 miles, small behind 757 5 miles.heavy 757 and large behind large 3 miles, small behind large 4 miles.heavy 757 large and small behind small 3 milesATA flys heavy B-757-200 out of midway, nation air was also another heavy B-757-200 operator, AAL UAL DAL COA B-757-200 are not heavy i belive all B-757-300 are heavys. In fact "heavy" has nothing to do with ground operations, stress on pavement, and it has nothing to do with seperating aircraft on the ground.aircraft do not produce wake turbulance while taxing, only when the nose weel leaves the ground wake turbulance starts. pilots dont call as heavy to let the controller know, we all ready know what typs of aircraft it is, via the flight progress strip and on the data block of the ARTS 3E. the above seperation would be used for spacing on final to touch down, in the radar pattern you may have to add 1 to 2 miles for compression inside the marker or FAF depending ont the weather conditions, if you have a 7110 most of this is in 5-5-3.joseph madejaatcs C90

[crvm 0]

In OAK it could mean "HEAVY -watchout for the wake - my ex is coming" ;-D[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

[victorlima01 2]

hehe...Just adding a little. Nowadays Heavy is basically used solely in the US and Canada (I think). At least no one here in South America says heavy unless traveling to a country where it is necessary (US for example). And even American ATC usually stops referring to the aircraft with the HEAVY suffix after initial contact. I have never noticed the suffix being used in Europe as well, except from American pilots who have the habit. I was in a 777 and neither the pilot nor the ATC said heavy. As a matter of fact I asked this to the f/o since they were about to let me do some comm work and he said the thing is slowly falling into oblivion.. But these things change a lot from place to place. Here in Brazil we have this reduntant thing where the controller always tells the pilot to call gear down and locked when established on final. People who come here from other parts of the world are not used to this and once the chatter between a United captain and Rio de janeiro tower went something like this: "Tower United 825HEAVY on the localizer RWY15." "Roger United825, Cleared for landing. Gear down and locked?" "Of course My dear. Let me worry about my job, you keep that 747 in the holding point from taxing onto the rwy ok?" ;) http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

[flightsimmer747 0]

It also departs HEAVY and can arrive at an airport LIGHT with all the fuel it burned especially on a long haul 747 flight. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

[Guest rcarlson123]

Actually, as mentioned above, an aircraft is considered heavy if it is capable of max takeoff weight of greater than 255,000 pounds. It doesn't matter what the actual current weight of the aircraft is.

[Guest Buck Bolduc]

>Actually, as mentioned above, an aircraft is considered heavy>if it is capable of max takeoff weight of greater than>255,000 pounds. It doesn't matter what the actual current>weight of the aircraft is.>Your right Ross.It reads an aicraft capable of 250,000 lbs max takeoff weight in "any phase of flight".Best

[Guest ben_hewitt]

>Negative sir, heavy is a term used certainly in the US and Europe, >and worldwide to my understanding.It is not used in Europe, you may hear it from the odd American pilot while flying in Europe but it is not standard phraseology here.

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

I have a training syllabus for Traffic>Management Coordinators and if I get to it I believe I will be>able to find that the spacing for 757 is actually larger than>for 747.But I don't think it's for the engines. It's because of its massive wing span that generates a relatively large wake.

[Guest CS-THV]

Yes. Ben is correct. It is not used in Europe.

[Guest Jeff_DCA]

It may not be used as much as in the US, but it is still used.Cheers,Jeff

[victorlima01 2]

Like I said, pretty much just the US nowadays. And it's not that important either. The controller knows the aircraft type from the flightplan etc.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

[Guest Jeff_DCA]

>but it is not standard>phraseology here.So i suppose they put questions on it in several JAA ATPL exams (including comms) just for a joke? ;-)Cheers,Jeff