# KEGE: I know it's possible, but how the HECK do I get ...

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Greetings all!Well I decided to fly some difficult approaches with the 737 in order to pass the time to the 74 arrives. I tried flying a quick jump from KSLC to KEGE in the 737-700, but I could not get into the airport after a few tries.First, I noticed on airliners.net that they actually put commercial 757's into that airport (http://www.airliners.net/open.file/226515/L/)...so I guess it should be possible with a 737 as well.Here is the link to the approach I tried (RNAV into RW 25) - http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0507/06403RD.PDFOk, so I arrive at the FAF NEPRY+3NM configured for landing at VREF+5 = 135 kts (flaps 40) and 9860FT AGL as charted.My calculation for descent rate are as followscurrent restricted altitude-TDZE = altitude to lose...(9860-6536 = 3325FT)Distance to threshold = 3.5NM135KTS/60 = 2.25 NM per minute so... It should take approaximately 1.56 minutes until touchdown. For arguments sake and to allow a little manuever space lets round that to 1.5 minutes until TD.All that said, I would need a constant descent rate of just over 2200 feet per minute to make it down. Since the normal rate of descent is in the neighborhood of 700-800 feet per minute my question is how do they fly this thing in real life? In the sim, if I maintain that descent rate I bust all sort of flap speed restrictions and the GPWS starts going nuts. That says nothing of most airline SOP requiring a stabilized descent at 1000' AGL. What about missed approach performace as the MAP is not until .5 miles from the TDZE?Can some please shed some light on how this is really done? Thanks!!!

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NEPRY is the MAP (missed approach point). After that, and if the airport is in sight when you reach NEPRY at 8900', it's a circle-to-land on runway 25 or 7 (check out the minimums). So, as long as you ALWAYS keep the field in sight, you can descend, and maneuver, as necessary for a visual approach to either runway 7 or 25. There's nothing on that chart that suggests you need to go direct from NEPRY to a landing on either runway. Also note the restrictions on Class C and D aircraft at night (737 is Class C) that states there is no circling authorized to the south of runway 7-25.

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I dont consider myself an expert but I think I can fly the NG and the Level D quite well. I programmed the RNAV GPS approach from: http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/index.php into the FMC and flew in there with no problems. I found it pretty easy following the restrictions and getting established for landing by POWRS and all went quite well. I did hand fly it I took the advice not to let the computer and autopilot fly the approach.Thanks for the heads up I enjoyed the flight in there and the is nice scenery for it here on Avsim.

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Ok, so perhaps this is all due to a lack of my knowledge of what you are or aren't allowed to do during approach.If I am told by atc that I am cleared for the Rnav approach to RW25, am I allowed to perform a visual approach provided the runway is in sight? If yes, does that mean I have authority to deviate from the approach plate or descend below 9860 feet at NEPRY+3 as long as I don't lose sight of the runway?I should say that I am hand flying this bird, but I am trying to comply with the altitude restrictions marked on the approach plate.Thoughts? Thanks!

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Another thought...Does anyone have any links to things like ATC Phraseology and what different clearances mean? Also, a detailed list of the VFR and IFR flight rules and flight rules within different airspace classes.Most of the stuff I have learned has been here on this forum, so I'd like to broaden my knowledge to be a little more versatile in my flying.Thanks!

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Thanks Chris, I appreciate the comments.Well, I just shot the approach and it was absolutely awesome. I executed a visual approach in perfect weather. I crossed AWACC at 11,100 feet and then dodged the mountains on the way in.I still believe that performing this approach as charted and adhering strictly to the altitude crossing restrictions is not possible in a swept wing commercial jet aircraft. If it is, I'd love to see a picture of how you did it :)Thanks for the help! BTW, I haven't used the microsoft ATC in years...it drives me bonkers. Thanks!

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Yer right -- it's not possible unless you configure and throw out those flaps to about 15 at the TOD. LOL. It's a steep approach for sure. Even last night in my Feelthere Caravan it was a pain in the neck. In the caravan I threw full flap at AWACC and still had a heck of a time keeping the speed down on the dive to meet the VASI.

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I can't believe I never knew EGE had these types of flights or that this airport even existed as an airline port. I am so embarased. What a hidden gem. I'm going to fly there tomm. in the sim.I see they are testing the new ILS there in the real world.

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Aye they are, but it is a tricky ILS . . LOL . . . okay you know how London City is considered a "steep approach" because of the angle? Same concept here, only more obstacles to dodge.The primary business here is both summer and winter. Int he Summer it is all of the camping and lodging tourists. In the winter it is the ski areas that are abundant here. Commonly seen here is the 757, but there are also a few airbuses and regional types that come in and out too.The reason the airlines use the 757 on this route is by shear handling of the aircraft. Any of us that have experienced a 757 -- especially POSKY's model, know it's handling power.If you read up you will find that the real 757 is much the same way. If airlines need flexability and good handling with the abilities for large passenger loads, the 757 is the way to go. Heck she'll even outdo the smaller airlienrs such as the 737 and A320 sliding in there.If PMDG ever makes a 757 model, you know JUST where I will be taking her almost daily **smiles**If you do a search on Airliners.net for KEGE, you'll get a great idea just what types go in there. Over 85 percent of the pictures though, as you'll see, are 757's.

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Is there an afcad or scenery for KEGE somewhere for FS9?edit: nevermind, found it on the library here. can't wait to check her out, thanks!

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how disappointing! So do the airlines drop KEGE from their schedules for the summer or something? none of my summer plans (i have all the majors) show a 757 coming into KEGE at all!! That sucks!!

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AHA!I forgot to mention that you have to go look at the site for KEGE to see the schedules. I **thought** I uploaded plans for that airport.I also made an AFCAD for the freeware add-on that is available on AVSIM that gives larger parking that would allow 757's there. IF I can find them (I lost a lot of files with this reformat - -I am still reinstalling my payware even as I write this response) I will upload them to avsim.If I find the flight plans I will paste them right here for you to copy right on into your AI plans to use as you please. FYI I use all aircraft from Project AI and am a proud support of Project AI. If it were not for them, there would be no Ultimate Traffic or (I forget the other name of the major add-on competetor for UT, but both got their "goods" from Project AI in return for support of PAI to keep the freeware free for us -- which i think is REALLY awesome!!!!)Unfortunately I found that no plans were ever published for KEGE. So I wrote my own. I cheated though, as they DO have a "dead" season which no 757's float in there. I took the busy season and made that my year round plans for FS9. :-) Besides -- at the rate Eagle CO is going, that will be the case eventually. That place is starting to get as popular as TNCM for plane spotters.

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Bad news . . .I checked and my PAI is totally gone. I will have to re-write everything from scratch and re-download all of my AI traffic.However if you are familiar with TTools, it is VERY VERY easy to get those written and I bet you could be using them for yourself and havign a blast before I even get the chance to get to it myself.

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Hi Jeff -Here is a link to the FAA ATC publications page, PDF or HTML formats. I highly recommend the AIM - Aeronautical Information Manual and the 7110.65 - Air Traffic Control.http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/Chris Saunders

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LOL, I have all those links. As a real world pilot myself I also keep paper charts.Thanks for the info.

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Same . . . have library . . . will travel.**smiles**

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Hi guys. I just tried out this fun approach for the first time. Thanks for the advice. Another fun approach you might try is Aspen's offset loc (KASE). It's quite close to Eagle. Anyway, I winged it the first time landing in RWY 25. Not very hard. Just followed your instructions and went for a dive after busting the minimums a few hundred feet (hey, I was VFR!). But things must be very very unconfrtable for the pax sitting close to the tail since final angle is negative (I know for a fact that in the 777 at least 2 degrees nose down is enough for uncomfortable pax).Continuing, I had a tailwind which meant I should've entered the Rwy 07 downwind and circling for that rwy; but after studying the terrain I concluded it is literally impossible for a 737 to circle and land on rwy 07. There's a huge mountain (at least in FS9) not one mile from that rwy. I tried circling north for Rwy07 anyway, and got all sorts of GPWS shouting at me. Anyway, I can picture a light twin turning tight base for rww 07, But I think I need to see to believe when it comes to 757s or 737s. Just my two cents. Unless they come in at final with an offset and correct it cose to the threshhold, like Kai Tak or Hawaii LDA approaches (only without radio guidance).Regards,Victorhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

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>RW25, am I allowed to perform a visual approach provided the>runway is in sight? Yes you are. Controllers really do not monitor how well you fly your approach. Approach charts are for you the pilot to get safely on the ground. If you have visual contact with the runway you can do whatever you want.. short of flying circles. Also if visual conditions were really good controllers would suggest a visual approach on their own.Michael J.

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Actually I circle to land in 737's, 757's and even the 767 all the time.The charts have specifics on that. Basically make it a RIGHT downwind, clearing the hills near the airport. There is a valley up ahead which I actually turn left into and then turn right to approaCH THE RUNWAY FROM A 45 DEGREE ANGLE THROUGH THE VALLEY. tHIS GIVES ME A NICE, COMFY APPROACH AND THE PAX GET LOTS OF TOURISTS PHOTOS OF THE AREA lol.Annnnd . . my caps lock i just realized was on and I wasn't looking at the screen, but I am not typing all that over again. Heheh.Least to say in the 737 and even the 757 you can do a regular right pattern withOUT the valley trick I just described.NOTE: Do NOT attempt a runway 7 approach in IMC. Only in clear, good conditions where wind permits shoudl this be done. Even with tailwinds, IFR in IMC always use the 25 approach.And I agree -- that Aspen approach is a killer too, but I lvoe the Eagle approaches more for variences in practice. Aspen is beautiful though -- especially with the terrain add-ons I have.

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>>RW25, am I allowed to perform a visual approach provided>the>>runway is in sight? >>Yes you are. Controllers really do not monitor how well you>fly your approach. Approach charts are for you the pilot to>get safely on the ground. If you have visual contact with the>runway you can do whatever you want.. short of flying circles.>Also if visual conditions were really good controllers would>suggest a visual approach on their own.>>Michael J.>Agreed. I hear some very interesting calls on the scanner when i am in that area. I think my favorite was a 757 (United) asking about "bouncing the passengers" out on a hilltop to save the landing sequence LOL. Tower said they would not be responsible for whatever the FAA did to them, but no matter what, they had to make sure none of the skiers hit any of the other planes on the way down.

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