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Guest JoeInCT

Differences Between 767-300 and 747-400

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Guest JoeInCT

I've been flying the LDS 767-300 for quite some time now and think I have the 763 down pretty good. I recently purchased the 747-400. I have found 2 differences in behavior between the 767 & 747. The first difference I am having a problem with is as follows: if the 767 is climbing to cruise and ATC assigns a temporary altitude that is lower than the cruise alt, upon reaching the MCP (lower) alt, the 767 switches from VNAV to Alt Hold and the speed window pops open. When ATC assigns the higher altitude, I simply put the higher alt in the MCP and press VNAV & the speed window closes and the 76 climbs to the higher alt. I've noticed this is NOT the behavior on the 747. If a lower alt is entered into the MCP (lower than cruise), the 747 will climb to that alt, and it will stay in the VNAV mode. When ATC clears me to a higher alt and I put the alt in the MCP, the 747 is still in VNAV mode and does not climb. To initiate the climb to the higher alt, I have been pressing the FLCH and then immediately back to VNAV which initiates the climb. I am sure this is not the right way to do it. How do you resume a climb to cruise in the 74 after a temporary level off?Difference number 2 is in the FMC Route page. If I include the destination airport as the last entry in the route, I get a DISCO that cannot be closed. In the 767, it would allow me to enter the destination airport as the last waypoint in the route. I did notice that once airborne, I can close the DISCO in the LEGS page by moving the destination airport up 1 row. Can you make the destination airport the last entry in the route in the 744? What am I doing wrong?Also wondering if there are any other quick tips for 767-300 pilots transitioning to the 747? I would appreciate any more tips in addition to the ones above. Thanks in advance for your reply.

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>will climb to that alt, and it will stay in the VNAV mode.Yes, it will stay in VNAV ALT when it is prevented from climbing higher (or descending lower).>How do>you resume a climb to cruise in the 74 after a temporary level>off?Simple. Dial in new altitude and momentarily depress the ALT button. By the way, it is well covered in the manual.Do not agonize over differences between those two aircraft - there are quite a few indeed.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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Guest JoeInCT

>Simple. Dial in new altitude and momentarily depress the ALT>button. Ah ha! So the Alt knob on the 744 can not only be turned side to side to set the MCP alt (a dial), but is also a "button" that can be pushed to tell the a/p to go to the alt?!. I did not know that. Thanks!!!>By the way, it is well covered in the manual.When I get a few dozen days off, I will definitely read it cover to cover. :-) It is a matter of time effeciency. I got an answer from you after about 2 minutes of my time. I believe it would have taken longer to find it in the manual but I could be wrong. Wish PMDG had a "pilots helping pilots..." forum for simple (stupid) questions.Now, what's the deal with the destination airport? Can you insert it as the last entry in the route or not?

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.>Can you make the destination airport the last entry in the>route in the 744? What am I doing wrong?No.Not sure what you want to accomplish. The destination airport can be changed right there on the very first RTE page, the destination is the very first thing you load into FMC, before any other legs. If you change the airport your STAR will be automatically deleted from the flight plan.Again, you ought to stop relying on what you 'think' should be happening and instead focus on how this particular unit works. I am afraid there is no substitute for reading the manual. If you don't want to read the whole thing at the very least you should reference the critical parts.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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>Ah ha! So the Alt knob on the 744 can not only be turned side>to side to set the MCP alt (a dial), but is also a "button">that can be pushed to tell the a/p to go to the alt?!. I did>not know that. Thanks!!!Yes, it's called the "Altitude Intervention" knob and I believe it does exist on the 767 as well...


Ryan Maziarz
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"Difference number 2 is in the FMC Route page. If I include the destination airport as the last entry in the route, I get a DISCO that cannot be closed. "You can close it on the real aircraft (I tried it a few days ago on a real 744).I seem to recall that PMDG had some programming which would prevent you from closing Route Disco's if waypoints were positioned too close together, preventing the aircraft from following a turn at those waypoints. Try deleting a waypoint prior to the disco). Cheers.Q.

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Guest gordonrd45

Th ALT intervention button does not exist on the 767-300 series. It does exist on the 747-400 and 777 series. It is probably on the on the 767-400 series but I have never been on that flightdeck.

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"ALT intervention button does not exist on the 767-300 series."I have this vague recollection that some of Air New Zealand's 767's have it (they don't have any 767-400's).It could be an option on some later series 767-300's.Cheers.Q>

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Guest JoeInCT

Thanks Q. I thought my 2nd question was simple. I'll have to give that I try. From what I remember though, the second-to-the-last waypoint was not real close to the destination airport. Perhaps the PMDG FMC sees the destination airport on page 1 of the ROUTE pages - and therefore, it wont let me enter it as the last entry in the ROUTE on page 2 or 3 etc (like you say, the PMDG FMC is designed not to allow 2 waypoints close together).And YES, I do understand you place both the departure and destination airports on the first ROUTE page (duh), but my question pertains to making the destination airport the last entry in the ROUTE as well (on page 2 or 3 etc). In the 767, you can make the destination airport the last entry in the route without a problem. Note: The 767 does not draw a course line from the last entry in the route to the destination airport by default (not sure if the 744 does). In the PMDG 744, you apparently cannot make the destination airport as the last entry (it creates a DISCO that you cannot close from the ROUTE page - only the LEGS page in flight). You may ask, "why would I want to include the destination airport as the last line of the ROUTE when you have already entered it into page 1 of the ROUTE pages?" I use the default FS ATC and FS flight plans, and you never know when you'll get the vector to final. If FS ATC waits to give vectors AFTER the last entry in the ROUTE, you get a "END OF ROUTE" from the FMC. By including the destination airport, I never get an END OF ROUTE message should vectors be given by FS ATC after the last entry in the ROUTE. Plus this is technically the route of flight in the FS ATC (filed) flight plan anyway (ie. the last waypoint direct to destination airport).Joe

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Some older/newer (dunno which) 757s have it. In those aircraft it performs the same function that the CLB DIR would do, ie. just skip all the ALT restrictions on LEGS and climb straight away to the MCP ALT.Never heard that it would be fitted on the 767 as well.Tero


PPL(A)

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>the vector to final. If FS ATC waits to give vectors AFTER the>last entry in the ROUTE, you get a "END OF ROUTE" from the>FMC. Hmm ... that sounds a bit artificial to me.The final entry should be close to the ILS intercept point (say 10 miles out), I never ever had FS ATC delay their vectors so I would have trouble intercepting. Frankly at this point you should be quite done with your LNAV navigation, with ATC vectors or without.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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Guest JoeInCT

>Hmm ... that sounds a bit artificial to me.>The final entry should be close to the ILS intercept point>(say 10 miles out), I never ever had FS ATC delay their>vectors so I would have trouble intercepting. Frankly at this>point you should be quite done with your LNAV navigation, with>ATC vectors or without.Um. Not necessarily. The second to the last waypoint could be some VOR 20 miles away. FS ATC & flight planner is not that good. Not having "trouble intercepting". Just saying your route could run out before FS ATC gives you a vector. By including the destination airport, I am insuring I will not get a END OF ROUTE message.Not at all a helpful nor a qualitative reply there Mike. The question is about the destination airport as the last entry in the route -- or any other differences between the 744 and 763.

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>Not at all a helpful or a qualitative reply there Mike. The>question is about the destination airport as the last entry in>the route. Sorry, I beg to differ, perhaps a review of typical approach procedures in a large jetliner would be in order. When you are 20 miles from the airport you should already be shooting for a concrete runway, not just an "airport". By this time you would typically have a STAR loaded that terminates at a specific runway.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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Guest JoeInCT

>>Sorry, I beg to differ, perhaps a review of typical approach>procedures in a large jetliner would be in order. When you are>20 miles from the airport you should already be shooting for a>concrete runway, not just an "airport". By this time you would>typically have a STAR loaded that terminates at a specific>runway.>Arrrrrgh. Are you serious? The last waypoint could be 50 miles away or 100. It doesn't matter. FS ATC/Flight Panner knows NOTHING about a STAR - so there's no use even loading one. Besides, I LIKE to put the desination airport as my last waypoint - call it personal preference - and the FMC should allow it. Good grief Charlie Brown. I have a BS in Aeronautical Studies from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. I'm not a total idiot.The point is, at some point the FMC route is going to be "out the window" when I get the assigned runway and a vector anyway. I just like being sure I'm not going to get a END OF ROUTE message before I get the vector and runway assignment - so I include the destination airport as the last entry in my route. But the 744 doesn't allow me to do this.Mike, if you are not going to type words on the screen that pertain to differences between the 763 and 744, I would appreciate if you wouldn't type it in MY Subject. Besides, I am sure at this point we are busting like, 10 forum guidelines here.

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>Arrrrrgh. Are you serious? You bet. You are using wrong procedures, (or wrong flight plans) hence your need for a feature that is totally unnecessary - if it was necessary it would surely be in a real 744 or real 744 drivers would bitterly complain. They don't. I am "typing" it since this very well may be what you are missing however it is totally up to you to disregard what I am "typing" here. Good luck with figuring out the differences and modifying your procedures to accomodate those differences. You must realize however it is unlikely Boeing/Honeywell will change the software in this FMC to accomodate your preferences even though you may have a degree from Embry R.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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