"Another question that came up was from where comes the command for the f/d to pitch to V2 + whichever speed. But who cares right? What matters is that the crew knows what will happen during normal and non-normal takeoffs. Well things got messy by then and we gave up on the matter."Wondering if his DDG allows a no FMC departure.... Then it actually would matter where V2 came from.Cheers.Q>

Maybe part of my concern is that we are relying on so much "on faith." Whatever it is, most guys just don't know what drives that command bar. I've had this conversation a dozen times with flight crews and it always goes nowhere and ends up getting "messy" (I know just what you mean). Had a Capt engaged one time and had his FO actually raised his hand and exclaimed "I know that one!" Geeze.When the rubber meets the road (or the tail snacks the crane), V2 doesn't come from the FMC or some MCP knob or the ABC or the XYZ. It comes from a calculation about what airspeed will get me over that obstacle (by 35 feet!) with an engine out!The real focus should not be on what computer (or knob) generates a pitch command that we will then blindly follow. That's why I always argue the following: I want all this technology dancing around - in the background - while I'm locked onto that speed tape. I'll take all the additional cues I can get, but the only thing I'm going to follow is that speedtape. I think an FMC-less takeoff should not just be allowed, it should be required, from time to time.

Sam,It has been a pleasure to read your posts. Fascinating stuff!Gerry

It's all really simple for the 57/67 (as I see it). I don't see how this could differ much for the 737/747 series (I know the V2 additives are different, but I mean the basic idea).1. Pilot sets V2 on the MCP SPD window2. MCP SPD is used as the reference speed for each profile3. On normal takeoff a speed of V2+15 or liftoff speed + 15 is commanded, whichever greater.4. If one exceeds V2+15, a max speed of V2+25 or Liftoff speed + 25 (not busting FLAP limit), whichever greater, is commanded. 5. FLAP limit speeds are always honored, so liftoff+25 will always be limited to equal or less than FLAP limit speed.This is how I see it. This is relevant for the initial climb phase before acceleration height, that is.Further. MCP speed setting *is* the source speed. There is no database that I'm aware of in the airplane that would override MCP SPD setting.rgds,Tero

From the 767 AOM:---TO