Qantas again....

[Qavion 19]

Crocodile Dundee: That's not a hole... This is a hole!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

[Ralgh 43]

>Here's a United 747 with an even BIGGER hole caused by a>cargo door separation from the aircraft while in flight. This>747 landed safely although several sections of seats were>pulled out of the aircraft in flight during the explosive>decompression, unfortunately, with the resulting deaths of>several passengers.>>http://www.montereypeninsulaairport.com/Page2.html>>The news is always doing sensational reporting. It gets them>the ratings they crave, but not always the truth of the story.>In reality, the damage to the Qantas 747 didn't look like it>was enough to cause any structural compromise and the pilots>probably had full control, just the sort of abnormal situation>they train for. But it gets the ratings up to hype it as doom>and fear, blood and guts. >>KimThat link has some of that sensational inaccurate reporting. I'm not familiar with the Air India accident but Pan Am 103 was a bomb, TWA 800 was a fuel tank explosion, and China Airlines 611 was an improper repair to the aft pressure bulkhead after a tail strike damaged it. When the pressure vessel ruptured it literally blew the vertical stabilizer off. One can see how a bomb could "inadvertently" open a cargo door but the others had nothing to do with cargo doors. Just skimming the article it seems that someone is on an agenda to try to show 747 cargo doors are unsafe or something.edit:I did a little research and apparently Air Indida was also a terrorist bombing.

[Tabs 2,790]

US media is reporting this morning that they're looking at an exploding O2 canister as probable cause in this...

[tunnelcat 1]

Tom,I only gave this link to show the included picture, not the editorial content, of the large hole left by the departure of the cargo door from the United 747 aircraft. The accident was investigated by the NTSB and the cause was determined to an electrical problem with the door latch mechanism. Read more here:http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1992/AAR9202.htmKim

[Ralgh 43]

I understand that. I wasn't critisizing you or anything. I was just pointing out how bad the author was getting things wrong. Kind of in line with the ohter articles in this thread. They were focusing on the 747s cargo doors when only the United accident had anything to do with them.

[tunnelcat 1]

As best as my memory serves me, I think that the cargo door latch electrical problem affected a larger number of 747's and required a redesign by Beoing. It's been awhile, but I did see a recreation of this particular accident on the National Geographic show 'Air Emergency'.Kim

[Guest D17S]

The cargo fire bottles sit right back in that corner too . . . but something had to have gotten something (else) really hot. Even so, all those pressure vessels have overtemp, thermal discharge protection. We've pretty well figured out that if they get too hot they'll go bang . . . and make a hole 'bout like that. Hummm. Should be an interesting finding.

[Qavion 19]

Latest reports have oxygen cylinder shrapnel piercing the cabin floor near the door 2 area. It looks like the door mechanism was affected, too.Some aisle ceiling (fibreglass) panels have dropped down, but that's to be expected with a pressure differential. Newer aircraft (e.g 777) have relief mechanisms in the roof panel latching mechanisms. As you say, the bottle should have vented to atmosphere long before it overpressured. If anything, the temperature and pressure should have been reducing as the aircraft climbed. The cylinders get very cold during flight as they are close to the skin of the aircraft.Something's not right here, but I don't think we can yet put the blame on poor maintenance. I think Qantas were very lucky that no one was seriously hurt :(Cheers.Q> イアン

[Guest Oz_Animal]

News reporting...Hummmm...Why is it that we always state the obvious about the obvious?A reporters job is to do 2 simple things, to make money for their employer, and to make money for themselves. Nothing else. (Some people say otherwise but I'm reluctant to believe them) If a reporter got professional advise and only used factual evidence before putting a story to the "editor", then the prognosis for that reporter would be very dim indeed.The second problem with the obvious is if we try to change this fantastic fictitious system then we won't be able to buy our favourite magazines anymore. "As we only buy them for the articles remember"...:) Steve (Disclaimer) All information contained in Steve's posts are for entertainment only. Any reference to humans or people professing to be human is merely a figment of your imagination. No responsibility will be excepted for any cerebral or other damage caused by this post, and it is highly recommended that you don't read them anyway.

[VHOJT 177]

> Qantas.... "the lucky airline"Qantas do seem to be have had a few "lucky" incidents with 744s lately - Bangkok over-run , ELEC fail of VH-OJL in January (was it something to do with drip tray not being installed - I can't recall if I am imagining this or not?), now this explosive decompression. Other incidents include their two engine failures on the 744s recently on QF30 and that LAX-bound plane - although these aren't really "lucky" to survive, pretty "standard" and "safe" failures I suppose.I am not trying to fault QF or anything, just pointing out a few incidents of late. They do seem to be having a bit of bad luck with their 744s recently.Incidentally, it was mentioned on the news that an American NTSB check required on the O2 cylinders was issued, and that it only affected three QF744s - I don't suppose anyone knows which ones they were? I am guessing VH-OEB/C/D, as they are "three" ex MH/Asiana ones I believe, and the only "odd" three apart from the fleets of RR 744s and GE 744ERs. I could be completely incorrect though.

[mcbellette 145]

Happened again overnight - a QF flight from Adelaide (YPAD) to Melbourne (YMML) was forced to return to Adelaide about 10 minutes after departure when the Pilot found that a landing gear door wouldn't close after retracting the gear. Seems QF just can't get a break this week!

[Guest D17S]

Had a friend suggest these things happen in "threes." I suggested that "3" was more a reflection of the length of our cumulative attention span. That seemed to shorten dinner significantly. Maybe someday I'll learn how to construct these prescient observations toward a more subtle presentation (There. That was pretty obscure).On the bottle topic: The U.S. FAA program has a hardtime hydrostatic test requirement. That is the extent of the pressure vessel maintenace program. There is NO hardtime life-limit for these bottles. However, a bottle may continue in service beyond that hardtime hydrostatic test due date if it has NoT been discharged. Generally O2 bottles are discharged more often and Never stay in service beyond that hardtime date. However fire bottles are seldom discharged and can live in service for decades . . . without the requirement of a hydrostatic rectification. However irrelevant, a modification to that regulation might be the "Proactice action" the NTSB (or equivalent) might initiate to put this mystery to bed.

[Qavion 19]

[mcbellette 145]

I have to agree with Q. If I had a choice of flying with Qantas or a Russian or Indonesian airline for example, I'd fly Qantas without hesitation any day in any circumstances. Indonesia has an abysmal aviation safety record (eg Yogyakarta airport incident) and Russian aircraft/airlines/pilots (from what I have seen and heard) aren't the most reliable either. Qantas is still by far one of the worlds safest airlines when the number of people/aircraft aloft each year is taken into account with the number of incidents/fatalities - not a single fatality for Qantas in its entire history.You have to remember too, Qantas is the second-oldest airline in the world still in its original form. Almost all other airlines have either perished or merged to survive. Last financial year, Qantas spent in excess of $2bn on fuel alone - that's not including wages, maintenance, aircraft purchases, etc. That number is certain to increase this financial year.Outsourcing maintenance isn't ideal from an Australian employee's perspective, but I think that is better than the airline disappearing as a whole due to financial ruin from fuel costs, ridiculous pay demands from employees, etc. As for talk of lower maintenance standards in these countries (eg Singapore), does anyone really believe that an airline like Qantas would put passengers onto their aircraft without the servicing work being done to international standards? Anyone who does believe they would put passengers, staff and their reputation at risk really needs to get a grip on reality.So, given that Qantas stands on its own two legs in the current world economic conditions, I think they deserve a break.

[markadeane 272]

>....And the newspapers never seem to get their facts right>first time... or for that matter, second time... The Daily>Telegraph posted a lovely pic of the very large potable>(drinking) water bottles today, claiming that they were oxygen>bottles :(The worst transgression I saw in this respect was released only this morning on the New Zealand Herald website, so it didn't even have the defence of immediacy breeding drama. It reports that:"No one was hurt in Friday's emergency on the Boeing 747-400. Flight QF30, flying at 8840m with 365 people aboard, immediately plunged 6000m as pilot John Bartels, 53, fought to bring it under control."'Plunged'? 'fought to bring it under control'? I thought it had been made plain from the beginnning that the rapid descent was standard procedure in the event of a problem of this nature.Also I might be wrong on this but shouldn't the captain have 'plunged' on down another 3000 or so meters to 10,000 feet too? Stopping at FL200 isn't helping anyone really.Finally the award for best journalism school graduate reporting goes to the person who reported the cruise altitude of the 747 as being "8839.2 Metres" :-lolCause, you know, that last 20 cm makes the difference. Hmm, can anyone say "let's google 'feet to metres' and put that instead"? :-roll