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Transatlantic flights using FS2002 ATC

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Hi all,I'm a new poster here, a big fan of PIC 767, and hope to do as mentioned in the subject line.Now as I understand things, I need to have the waypoints that define the north atlantic tracks in the FS2002 waypoint database, so that I can first make up the FS2002 IFR flight plan that is required for ATC. Problem is they are not there (examples: SCROD, 5050N, 3040N etc.) I'm not sure I want to get bogged down in a full scale flight planner like FS Nav or FSBuild at this point since I don't mind doing my own planning. All I need is 40 or 50 waypoints that I can use to make up reasonable tracks. So the first question is: Is there a way to add these manually to the FS2002 database or if not, what's the next best thing?Part two of this is that I also need these waypoints in the FMC database (FMCWP), but the default database does not have them. I saw the navdata update on the Wilco site, but I'm not sure what to do with it. It seems like you should just copy the new files over the old ones, but the original database has some waypoints that are not included in the update, so they would be lost. How do y'all handle this? Or am I missing something big?Obviously, I'll be very appreciative of any help you can offer. Thanks! ... Dave

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The NavData update on the wilco site is a "must have". Replace the files with like files from the update in your FMWCP/NavData folder. If you are losing waypoints, it is likely because they no longer exist.As for FS2k2 ATC and the flight planner in FS2k2, I have used it maybe twice as it is a waste of time.VATSIM is the way to go for real time ATC, the Atlantic hops can be boring which is why I do them at 4X. I don't think you can modify the FS2k2 databse for waypoints, but I could be wrong. The point is, don't bother unless you -really- want to listen to Fs2k2 ATC over the pond...but forget about the proper protocol on cross-Atlantic hops, I very much doubt the AI can handle it or is even programmed to simulate the oceanic ATC communications.

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Guest Martin

Hi Dave. Welcome to the world of NAT flying. (That sounded cheesy, yes. :-))Unfortunately there is no way of adding waypoints to the FS2002 database, so the best way to make your own flight plans for use with the FS ATC is, IMO, to use FSBuild. If you know the route, you just type it in and press "Build Flightplan" and a plan will be built in whatever format you choose, including FS2002 .pln files and PIC .rte files. Alternatively, if you don't know the route, FSBuild has lots of stored flight plans. They will obviously not always be accurate, since the NAT tracks change every day. (They use the set NAT tracks used within VATSIM I believe.)About the FMC database, as far as I can remember I have never had any problems with fixes like 5050N, 5710N etc, and that is the correct format for the FMC. If you find that it's not there you can always enter coordinates instead. To do that for 5710N you enter N5700.0W01000.0 into the FMC scratchpad and then LSK it to the proper position in the LEGS page like you would with a normal waypoint. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's also possible to round off the entry so you don't have to type in all the zeros (N57W010).MartinIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Guest Martin

>I very much doubt the AI can handle it or is even programmed to simulate the oceanic ATC communications.You're right. AI and ATC will handle the whole NAT as completely normal radar covered airspace.I have made a few transatlantic flights with the FS ATC, and while the ATC totally sucks, it's nice to have some company in the air: I've seen US Air 767s pass by, Continental 777s in the other direction a few thousand feet above me, and heard an Air India 747 talking with ATC. It's VATSIM all the way if there's controllers but most likely there won't be - not for the oceanic crossing, and most likely no traffic to spot (not counting fly-ins and group flights, but they are pretty rare).MartinIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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You guys are a great help!! I've had the navdata upgrade, but didn't quite know what to do with it; now I do. And since reading your posts, I've downloaded FSBUILD and its data and will install it hopefully tomorrow.That leaves VATSIM. This is a whole new world to me, and I wonder if someone can give me a very general overview of how this works. Who or shat actually does the ATC? Can you talk to it through a microphone? Can it work with a dial-up connection or is something faster needed? If I can get a very basic uderstanding of what it IS, I should be able to find the specifics on my own. This thing is very intriguing, to say the least.Thanks again!! ... Dave ... Dave

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>That leaves VATSIM. This is a whole new world to me, and I wonder if >someone can give me a very general overview of how this works. Who >or shat actually does the ATC? Real people do the ATC over a network. Its basically an online ATC service you can join in for free. >Can you talk to it through a microphone? Yes, you can talk directly with the ATC via the Roger Wilco softwareyou will hear the other pilots on the frequency as well.>Can it work with a dial-up connection or is something faster needed? Dialup connections generally work fine.Regards.Ernie.

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Thanks, Ernie. Much obliged. I need to dig into this; it sounds fantastic. ... Dave

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To add to what Ernie said,I use VATSIM and Roger Wilco (RW) on a 56K modem that I can only connect at 26.6 on. According to everyone I've communicated with, and by listening to my transmissions coming through another computer hooked up to the 'net and on the same RW channel, my voice xmits are very clear.One word of warning

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Mr. B is not available for comment at this time as he is busy maintaining his number 1 spot on PIC/VATSIM addicts anonymous. Mr. B is the poster child for PIC's anonymous...please give generously to his fund, there is a cure out there somewhere.Should you wish to get further information about the addictive nature of VATSIM/PIC, please contact 'she who must be obeyed' - aka my girlfreind who would be pleased to share her thoughts on this matter. It is highly addictive, and when it's done right, you will be left completely spent.Rob

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WOW! This turned into some thread. Steve's comment on VATSIM was especially convincing that I need to get set up for this. Thanks aagain to all of you.

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Dave,Everything that has been said here is very true, VATSIM is *very* addictive but bear in mind you need to register before you can take part and it may take a couple of days to get your PID to go on line flying.I would also urge you to check out the various SquwakBox and RW tutorials before making your first flight; remember once on line it *is* like the real thing, no pausing the sim while you sort yourself out :-) it all happens 'real time'.And don't position yourself on a runway when you connect, you *will* upset a lot of people ;-)

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:-lol..."And don't position yourself on a runway when you connect, you *will* upset a lot of people"Hey Vulcan,I had 172 pop onto the opposite end of the departure runway I was using just after I hit VR in a 767!:-eekI cleared him without a problem, and there was no controllers on line at that airport at the time, so I was the only one who had a scare!I tried to .msg him, but he did not respond, so I figured either he was new or thought I was gonna' harass him for his "Runway incursion" :)I looked him up on Servinfo and sent him an email letting him know what happened, and he was in fact a new guy. He had no idea what had happened, and was very apologetic about the incident. I informed him how to setup his situation before he connected to the server to avoid this in the future. Since then, he has become a very active member in the VATSIM world. We have crossed paths in the sky and always .msg each other and chat for a bit

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Was his name "Timmy" ? ;-)I would have dumped my sewage tanks over him as I flew over...because I am a grumpy old sod ;-)Rob.

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Guest Martin

Haven't you learned anything?!You don't do stuff like that just after lifting off. Instead you should concentrate on making a safe takeoff and climb, and then reverse your course as quickly as possible, and only THEN go back and dump the sewage tanks. :-rollMartin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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