Not really, but typically just the end of your checkride... In real life you can say hello to the news helicopters if you are in LA. Pedro

This is part of Mike Ray's response to the V1 cut screenshots"Holy Cow!!!Pedro, thank you very much for the screen shots. I thought I was back inthe "real" simulator.I had heard that the 767 PIC program was pretty good, but I had no ideathat it was that realistic.By the way, you were flying a really nice V1 Cut. I would have to saythat you will get an "up" on your checkride.I can't get over the realism on those sim shots. Thanks for the pics.Mike"Not even Mike could believe as real as it gets...

I believe this is not a new discovery/idea. Kevin Au (another jet pilot) advocated this approach/solution to rudder problem long time ago on this forum. He used however setting 8.0 for rudder effectiveness and claimed it was enough for him.Michael J.

Hi michael,You are missing the point which is that by using 24 you can leave the yaw dampers ON eliminating the rudder flutter problem. I know it's hard to get that out of the thread but that is the point. BTW, I was the one who suggested using 8.0 on this forum. Pedro

No Pedro, I am not missing anything. This is precisely what Kevin described: both yaw dumpers ON (all the time even on the ground) and rudder effectiveness set at 8. You can dig into old threads.Michael J.

This is what Kevin had to say on Mar 3, 2002 in his thread "possible solution to rudder problem". You Pedro were partcipating in this thread too and were interested in Kevin's idea.http://www.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID43/5214.htmlI am just trying to give credit where credit is due. :-beerchugKevin is an experienced jet pilot and he helped many people here and on the ERJ-145 forum at fsnordic site. Great guy. Works for Continental Express.Michael J.

Hi Michael,Alright, turn both YDs on and do a V1 cut with the effectiveness at 8.0. Don't tell me that someone did it, you do it...Good luck.... Pedro

Michal,Kevin wrote..."I lose about 15-20 degrees on the initial yaw during the V1 cuts, which is about par for what the PIC always did to me, but there is enough authority to stop it and beginning working back to the initial heading. Afterwhich, aircraft control on one engine seems normal.Crosswind landings were a piece of cake"I replied..."Hi Kevin,I was afraid that you were going to say that. That is not an acceptable V1 cut maneuver. In fact, on a checkride that's a fail. On FS2000 I had a rudder_effectiveness=2.0 and it worked flawlessly. I am going to see if the other solution actually works. Pedro"Just for your knowledge you will get a type rating failure after 10 degrees. So the solution worked, it just didn't work right, if you care to do the maneuver correctly. I am glad you pointed out the thread. I had forgotten that I wrote to Kevin about the problem..If you look at the first screenshot you can see that on the runnway with half rudder travel I can maintain heading while the aircraftt accelerates past V1. Then on the climb out, heading can be kept tightly like it is supposed to. Since you have not done the maneuver on a real simulator, you do not see that it is a BIG DEAL to be able to do this at your home pm your computer, while it feels very similar to the simulator (remember we paid 40 dollars for this) , but I do and I am amazed. If you can not reate to this, I understand but that is why I thought it was a big deal. I you ever get to fly for real you'll agree..Pedro

Mark, Pedro, & allI did this (as stated above) tonight and made two flights.Change rudder effectiveness to 24Disable auto rudder - (had always been disabled)Leave both yawdampers onI previously had been flying with both dampers off and an effectiveness setting of 1.8. That worked well for me but so do these new settings. I have not tried any cuts but can tell that I have LOTS of rudder authority so I won't be surprised to find the same thing that Pedro has been illistrating.Looks to me like this is going to work out quite well. I see no major difference in taxi control and I am flying with both damper switches on for the first time since my very troubled first flight with the 2002 patch.Thank you gentlemen for bringing this up in the forum again and detailing a set of options that seem to work well.

OK guys, take it easy on one another and lets stay focused on rudder control. I just replied above that these settings, (rudder effectiveness 24/Disable auto rudder/Both yawdampers on) have tested very well for me this evening. Everything is stable and I have LOTS of rudder authority. So I am greatfull for everyone who has had input into this along the way.Pedro, I saw you on line earlier this evening as I was pulling away from Kansas City airspace. Interesting that you had some contact with Mike Ray over this. Let him know that another PIC addict has a copy of his book on request - a perfect fathers day gift, don't you think. I love my kids!

Cool Mike, Happy Father's day in advance.... Pedro

Using the MS FF Stick, Auto-Rudder ON is a necessary evil IMHO. You can fly without it, but taxi on the ground becomes a real pain as the twist action is just not accurate enough.I did the following last night and had no problems getting the rudder authority that I needed...Yaw Dampers - BOTH ONAuto-Rudder (FS2k2 Aircraft-Realism setting) - ONRudder_effctiveness - 24.0What I noticed was superior rudder control on crosswind approach and during rotation on a crosswind t/o....perhaps a little too much authority :-) ...but it is good and as long as I am gentle, it seems to be right for me.If someone has any incite into conflicts with Auto-Rudder ON with an effectiveness of 24.0, please let me know. If I had the dough, I would buy the rudder pedals and a yoke, but I don't so please don't tell me the stick is not realistic, I already know. Point is, I want to be sure the settings I noted above are what PEDRO, et al, agree is the best possible for the set up I have.Thanks,Rob.

>In real life you can say hello to the news helicopters if >you are in LA. That goes for a landing with stuck flaps too! I believe an AA 767 (or perhaps 777) did that live on tv first time I visited L.A...Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Actually, I ended up settling on a factor of 14 for the rudder effectiveness. Yes, it does allows me to hold the nose dead center on the V1 cuts. Are you sure 24 is not too sensitive? Anyways, it seemed as though there is a "null" in the 9-12 range where that rudder effectiveness number seems to be ignored. So on the initial testing, 8.0 was what I reported because that was as I high as I went with any improvement. Unfortunately, I kept 14 to myself at the time because I just didn't feel like arguing with you anymore at that point. I am happy though that you at last found satisfaction with this topic. And I do think you deserve credit because it really was your original idea to dither with the rudder_effectiveness in the original Lee merge file.kevin

Hi Kevin,No, we all deserve credit because we come here to share ideas. The best value I believe is really up to the user bacause there are other factors that will affect the sensitivity as experienced by the user. For example, I don't use null settings because my setup is PFC/rudder pedals through the COM port. Depending on how you calibrate your yoke/pedals the controls may seem more or less sensitive even without touching the aircraft dynamics. For my setup 24.0 seems similar to the sim where I got the 737 type, but it could very well be different for someone else... I am just glad that people are getting to play with this and experience yet another marvel of the panel. BTW 24.0 only works with the PIC airfile. For other airfiles 24.0 makes you fly at a bank angle with the autopilot on like for the 757.air or the dreamfleet737.air. etc...Take care, Pedro