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Rudder Problem Fixed! V1 cut Pictures...

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Hi,After receiving the update, it bothered me that the rudder would flutter with the Yaw Dampers OFF airborne. Turning the Yaw Dampers ON would fixed the problem but killed the rudder in the air. I found the a rudder_effectiveness=24.0 fixes the problem. Following are three screenshots of a V1 cut evolution. Screenshot#1Aircraft has an engine 2 failure just past V1 (Actually ,I cut the fuel). Notice the rudder maintaining the aircraft on the centerline. This used to be impossible.Screenshot #2While maintaining the same rudder input, there is the rotation and gear up at positive rate. I am capable of maintaining heading with rudder control. On the climb out I switch to the rudder trim to keep heading control. Screenshot #3At the single engine flap retraction altitude: A/T OFF Flaps up on schedule, TRP to CON and give the aircraft back to the autopilot. I am now using the rudder trim to keep the same input I had with the pedals. With the rudder trimmed once past 220 knots the aircraft flies on one engine as if both were running.It works extremely well and the maneuver feels very similar to a real life simulator. I would like to know if anybody else out there has ever tried this maneuver (any real 767 pilots?) and if so, please try this and report if you can do it on your system. FSUIPC 2.83 (in case you wondered). Even thought it doesn't matter the takeoff was at KSDF, 39,100 lbs of fuel ZFW 245.000 lbs. The engine failure at V1 (I cut off the right engine fuel) at the first white bug. Remember to change your rudder_effectiveness! to 24.0. BTW crosswind landings are a breeze...Regards, Pedro

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Hi Pedro!I have used a value of 22 up to now, I get 24 doesn't change that much.I tried a few V1 cuts at MTOW with flaps 5 and worked like a charm. Asked a 757 pilot how much trim would be needed on the 757 to maintain directional control at V2. He said approx. 5 units and said that it should be similar on the 767. Tried it and it worked!Slight yaw tendencies, so I guess 24 would be right on!(I was too lazy to experiment longer :-) )The only drawback to this setting is that the nosewheel aswell as the rudder on the visual model do not move a lot. I know, I know, you fly from the inside, not from the outsde :-)Oh well, aerodynamic stability has priority over a moving rudder!Greetings,Mark

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Guest

Hi Mark,So, the rudder doesn't move on your system? Then what is this...?That is interesting. On what aircraft? Regards, Pedro

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Hi Pedro!Sometimes I feel like I am playing a hand of bridge with 3 cards left in my hand and asking .... what is trump?Please forgive me for the dumb questions but what update? and where is the elevator effectiveness setting? Thanks in advance...BobP :)

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Hi BobPThere are no dumb questions, just dumb people for not asking them. rudder_effectiveness!!!!! the elevator_effectiveness is perfect![flight_tuning]cruise_lift_scalar=1.000pitch_stability=1.000roll_stability=1.000yaw_stability=1.000parasite_drag_scalar=1.000induced_drag_scalar=1.000elevator_effectiveness=1.000aileron_effectiveness=1.000rudder_effectiveness=24.0If you don't have this section in the aircraft.cffg file then add it and fly. If you have never done a V1 cut, consult a "v1 cut profile" from anywhere (preferably for a 767, Mike Ray's book has a terrific one). Hope this helps, Pedro

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Srange!Do you have the yaw damper activated in that picture?Whenever I activate it, in whatever aircraft, the rudder hardly moves at all. It should not be called yaw damper but yaw killer :-)The rudder moves fine as long as the yaw damper is off (apart from the fluttering)

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Hey Mark,That's important. I thought that's the way it used to be. Did you change your rudder effectiveness to 24. If not do it and try it again. That's what I want to find out. Both my Yaw Dampers are ON!. Pedro

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Pedro, is that the posky V2 or V3? you are using feelreal textures so I 'assume' you are using v2 right? I'm asking because I would like to use the feelreal textures with v3 but I think is not possible

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Guest

Hi,This is what I had for FS2000 so I guess it is V2. I wasn't aware of a newer version... Pedro

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Guest ilh

Rudder works visually because that is a POSKY v2 not v3!Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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Hi Lee,My interest was to get the rudder to work for control (I don't care if it visually moves at all...) Pedro

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Hiya Pedro!Ok that clears up the confusion. I'm also using Posky V3 for the outside model. So I guess one has the following option:Posky V3, with flexing wings and modelled reversers, but without rudder movement and nose gear steeringORPosky V2, without all the new gimmicks, but with rudder movement. I guess I'll stick to my current setup. Most important are the aerodynamics so I really don't care that much.Greetings,Mark

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Guest ilh

I completely understand!I tried this last evening and did such a V1 cut. It did work pretty well, although I only have a MS joystick with twist rudder so rudder precision is terrible. However, I was able to stay on the runway after the cut and get safely airborn. You are right that rudder trim works quite nicely and lets you fly around pretty much as if you didn't lose an engine. Is it really this easy in real life?I was able to climb up to 10,000 on a single engine at 1-2000fpm at GW 285,000lbs. Impressive.Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

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Guest

With Rudder-effect at 24.0 - did you test with Yaw Dampers on or off?I have been using Rudder-effect 8.0 and noticed improved controlablity with Yaw Dampers on.What was your set up?Rob.

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Hi Lee,Yeah, ,the maneuver is extremely easy on the simulator (although you know it's coming that's half the game). It feels extremely similar like PIC I must say... BTW the DF thing is killing me...Pedro

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Thanks Pedro.PS - You should try Lee's merge for the GMAX Posky model (v3). The Feel Real is nice, but I think you'll like the GMAX better.Rob.

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Guest Martin

Hi Lee,I also have a MS stick with twist rudder, and I currently have rudder effectiveness set to 2.0, and even at that setting the rudder is dangerously effective on the ground: When taxiing it's easy to make a 180 degree turn instead of a 90 degree if you're not careful...Doesn't this get even worse when setting it at 24?Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Not if the yaw damper is on.Also, make sure auto coordination is switched off.

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Guest

Auto-coordination in the FS2002 Aircraft Realism menu? What about Auto Rudder for us Sidewinder Stick users?? Auto Rudder is a must for the Stick as it is almost impossible to do it with twist action.Rob.

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Guest Martin

Hmm... what's the difference between Auto-coordination and Auto Rudder?BTW, before I didn't notice any difference whatsoever between having the right yaw damper (i.e. auto rudder) turned off or on. Now, it's like it was in FS2000 - if I bank with the stick the aircraft will turn.And I seem to have a pretty powerful rudder (on the ground) even with yaw damper engaged, and it seems to be regardless of the auto rudder...Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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I have a sidewinder stick aswell. Whats Auto Rudder? Isn't that the same as auto coordination?Now that you mention it, I'm not sure what the setting's name is, but could be that its called Auto rudder and not auto coordination. Anyway, make sure that that setting in the Aircraft/Realism menu is switched to off.This will not be very realistic (the real aircraft flies auto-coordinated) but its one of the only ways to get manual rudder input without the fluttering.Regards,Mark

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hmm...maybe Pedro can jump in here and remove the confusion in my head...What I understand is this...with a MS FF Stick...Auto Rudder (FS Menu) - ON (A necessary evil).Yaw Dampers (L+R) - ONRudder_effectiveness - 24.0- I'll try it tonight.Rob.-------------------------------------------

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Hi RobNo, not a good idea.Let me shed some light on this:In FS2002, you have the option of switching on auto rudder. While all turns are coordinated, you only have a very TINY bit of rudder input. By tiny I mean minuscule, enough to lets say change the heading 1 degree at Vmax. I tried to increase this setting, but realized that I need a Rudder_effectiveness of something like 200 (yes two hundred) to get enough yaw to maintain heading after a V1 cut. While this is ok, you cant control the aircraft on the ground. The smallest input to the rudder will turn you 180

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Guest MB327

OK partner, now you have me confused too. I have (I think) FS2002 auto coordination turned "OFF" all the time and as you know, I am a MS FF2 user as well. For the last 3 months, I have been flying with a 1.8 effectivness setting and both dampers "OFF." I am eager to reset to 24 and flip them both back on and give her a try this evening.

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