And it has your name all over it. :-lol I find it very helpful to occasionally read the old posts from back when 767 PIC was new and there was a lot of active participation in the forum.

Try flying a procedure like the LOOP3 departure from the 25s at KLAX and you'd appreciate why a pilot would want to arm LNAV and VNAV on the ground. I'm sure there are much more difficult departure procedures but this one requires a change of heading immediately on departure; then radar vector that essentially require you to fly a "teardrop" to cross the LAX VOR.

Don't most pilots prefer to hand fly their planes up to 10k?

Not if thier SOP states otherwise, Randy

HiI wonder when the second installment will get online...BBall ? Have you already compiled the second installment ?regards,Tero

I will hopefully help solve this LNAV VNAV debate. I used to be an instructor for northwest on the 757. SOP at northwest states that VNAV is armed before takeoff and LNAV is also armed if there is an fms departure, other wise LNAV is not armed, the pilots just set the runway heading into the window and at 500 feet push heading select. The VNAV is armed so that with northwest sop, when the aircraft reaches 1000 feet, the pilots push the clb thrust button. This action gives the fmc control over the thrust limits. For example, when departing out of minneapolis, the clean up altitude is 3000 ft AGL due to noise abaitment procedures. So instead of changing sop to push climb at 3000, the pilots still do it at 1000 and then the fmc is programmed to continue the climb at max takeoff epr and directs the FD to pitch for a takeoff airspeed, which is too complicated to explain here, but it is around v2+15. When the aircraft reaches 3000agl, the fmc will then move the speed bug up to the max speed allowed for the current flap extention, and this will also push the FD to tell the pilot to pitch for the new speed. The FMC in this case is wanting to go to 250 knots, but will stop at the max flap extend speed until the flaps are cleaned up. To answer another question, yes most pilots do hand fly the aircraft up to around 10,000, but this does not mean that you disable the automation. You engage vnav and lnva, if needed, to give you FD guidance. The autopilot, does not have to be engaged to use the automation and FD. Also, in PIC, you do not usually need to arm vnav, because at 1000 feet the aircraft automatically engages CLB thrust. I hope this help clear it up. If you need anymore explaination, let me know.

You make a very good point and the distinction is an important one. Some people are confusing the AFDS and the autopilot. As you point out, arming VNAV does not necessitate automatic flight but it does provide helpful FD cues and you get the benefit of FMC commanded thrust limits.Sometimes I think simmers are a tad too eager about automated flight and would benefit from spending a week in the sim with a black piece of tape over the CMD buttons. I think autoflight-happy-syndrome is partly due to 1. Inexperience, 2. Microsoft's cheesed-out implementation of a FD (to say nothing of their flight models), 3. The 'ooo and ahh' factor of a plane that flies itself. Nobody wants to hand fly anything - just push buttons :) The FD in PIC is one of the best around and it's surprisingly easy to fly a VNAV profile w/ proper airspeed simply by following the cues.For whatever reason, this reminds me of my over-fascination with elevator trim (a habit I partly blame on flight simming) during my PPL lessons and the FI who repeatedly kept slapping my wrists every time I reached for the trim wheel, "Fly with the damn yoke, not the wheel!". :-rollJ

>engage vnav and lnva, if needed, to give you FD guidance. >The autopilot, does not have to be engaged to use the >automation and FD. Also, in PIC, you do not usually need to >arm vnav, because at 1000 feet the aircraft automatically >engages CLB thrust. I hope this help clear it up. If you >need anymore explaination, let me know. That's what I've been doing.

>The FD in PIC is >one of the best around It is. I hand-fly all my ILS approaches using the FD cues only - it makes flying so much easier. It is my favorite part of avionics.Michael J.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

WHEW!!!Wow, leave for a few days, get something published....and LOOK OUT :D! You guys are great! Btw...THANK YOU Luke for the expertly delivered explanation of NWA's SOP concerning VNAV and LNAV re: our departure profiles.First of all, thanks for the kinds words regarding this piece....it wasn't easy to write...a bit like writing a piece explaning why you love your wife (and giving it to her :D). Somewhere along the line, she's going to take exception to something you say....(female advice mode-OFF).To answer a few questions...1) haven't even started work on the second installment. In some ways it'll be easier than the first, more of a "HOLY CRAP...look the engine is on fire! Let's put it out!" kind of a thing (and again, did Wilco code and/or make this thing "accurate" in relation to "real world" engine fire things) Right now, I have no idea when I'll get started on it...most assuredly after the first of the year.2) most pilots I've flown with on this jet do indeed hand fly for the first several minutes of the flight. We left KSEA this morning (I'll put up some pics later tonight), and IIRC, I flew it to about 15K, then let "George" have it. On landing, I hand flew it in from about 8 miles out (severe VFR in KMSP), made a nice landing (alright...not a greaser, but not bad :D), and felt good about the whole thing. Most guys, as they're getting close to their yearly dose of "you bet your career" in the simulator, start doing more hand flying a month or so before. One "make it or break it" manuver we have to demonstrate to (almost) perfection, is the dreaded single-engine ILS to CatI minimums hand flown. It can be a bit of a bear if you're not ready for it, and some practice doing the "push, pull, turn" thing is never a bad idea.thanks again for all the support guys, oh, and I do want to apologize for the REALLY crappy screenshots in the review. I was using Hypersnap, and wasn't pleased so I switched to Paint Shop Pro...and, well, you an see they just didn't come out well. Actually, even the VERY CLEAR shots of the real world FMC look crappy too, so maybe it's not the screenshot utility....I'll check into it more.I'll try and get the pics up when I reach the hotel in KPDX.later,BBall----------------------Capt. William "BBall" BallBoeing 757, Northwest AirlinesSenior Editorwww.Frugalsworld.com

Hey William,i just gotta say the way you write a review is, awe-frikkin-tastic. The thing i REALLY like about it that you actually make it sound like a story and are appearantly a very humoristic person. :)can't wait for the second release,and though i will most probably be released on Airbus in a couple of years, still hope to fly this big one(757 at DHL/EAT or the 767's at Sobelair, if they're still alive that is :-)).Also, you say you get an entire package for a flight, including weather reports, and a nice route. This is done by the dispatchers i suppose, but are you tought to actually only use these flight plans? I wonder why we study flight planning for months(here in Europe at least under the JAR, so it's not exactly FAR but i think on that point there's not much difference) and end up getting all our 'flightplanning' done by a team of experts in that field. Or is it a misinterpretation that every airline has a dispatcher?Anyway, thanks alot for your nice review, really like your comments BUT one thing i really couldn't stand: you say you'd rather be in Turkish Prison than do the sunrise flights, meaning you don't want to do the sun-rise'ers, yet at this time, for me, i'd be GLAAAADDDDDD to be able to fly. Of course you got a steady job and all... lol... ahh nevermind that comment... just a bit outta frustration i guess... it's soo darn expensive here....hope to see you up in the skies one day(I'll "try" to make it into the transatlantic flights, might find you at one of the eastern airports...)cheers

Just to help out with your question. You are correct, every airline in the united states is required to have a dispatcher under FAR part 121 regulations. There are a lot of other requirments for the 121 airlines in the us, such as must be able to contact aicraft in flight and have away to monitor the aircrafts position and progress. That is why airliners are not required to have emergency locator transmiters that go off when they crash, because the dispatcher is supposed to know where the plane is. At northwest pilots are tought to use the flight plans in their initial pilot indoc course, when they are hired. Actually, and I think BBall will agree, but northwest has the best flightplan and dispatch program in the country. Northwest uses jepesen flight plans, for domestic flights, and they have a weather system called the TP or turbulence plot system. It was orginaly devised to help combat the inflight turbulence problem that was hurting passengers and flight attendents, but has evolved into a great weather avoidance system. The pilots get these tp reports via ACARS in the flight deck and it give the pilot a list of points to plot which make an area where certain types of hazardous weather is. Needless to say other airlines have offered to buy this from northwest and their offer was refused. So this system gives northwest the best weather related safety record in the industry. Well, enough of my rant, I'm sure I've already answered your question to beyond a resonable doubt.

Another nice feature that Northwest provides the pilots is the "Mountain Wave Avoidence Routes". These are specially added to the high altitude Jep charts that Northwest pilot receive. They show the airways and direct routes to avoid when mountain wave activity is expected or reported by dispatch.Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilotRetired NW 757 driver

Lenny,Thanks for the nice comments, and by all means, take exception to my statements about doing the early moring flights (hell, I would if I was trying to get an airline job and somemoron is complaining about having one :D). Realize, of course, that those statementsare made in jest...well, mostly in jest (I still hate getting up early for anything).I know full well what it takes to be on the outside looking in. I've "been there, donethat", and have a huge amount of respect for you guys trying to achieve the dream that I live each day at work. Good luck to you all. Work hard, stay out of trouble, persevere, and it'll happen....never give up the dream.AFA the statements about flight planning....oh, and thanks again to Luke for chiming in :D.We do study it in detail throughout our pilot training (at NWA and in the civilian world).I remember for my ATP written test, I had to flight plan a Boeing 707 from New York to Paris....it was a huge pain in the #####, but good training none the less. Now, of courseit's all done for us, and that's a Godsend....but it didn't used to be that way. When I was a new Boeing 727 First Officer in 1985 we still "hand filled out" all the flight plans....yep,routings, times, fuel burns, the whole enchilada. We ran it by the Captain (and the Dispatcher), they signed it and away we went. Re: Luke and Ed's statements about our TP (Turbulence Plot) program....four little words...it is unbelievably good! I've heard MANY times over the years...."which way is thered tail going? We want that routing too." We at NWA very rarely bounce passengersand/or crewmembers around the cabin. We take turbulence avoidance VERY seriously,and it shows in our safety stats. Oh, and our International Dispatchers are the best in thebusiness. They work together with our in house (a rarity nowdays for U.S.carriers) meteorology department, and we fly both "ponds" well. I can recall many nightsin the DC-10 sailing across the N. Atlantic on a "random track" in smooth air, while listeningto everyone on the "organized track" system complain on the common chat freq. about gettingthe crap banged out of them due turb. It's a great system, and we've very proud of it (I used it extensively tonight flyingKMSP to KPDX....we came north on a "mountain wave deviation route" that Capt.Ed spoke of, we dropped from FL350 all the way down to FL240 over Montana, and sailed along in (mostly) smooth air while everyone else was complaining :D).again, thanks for the kind words,take careBBall-----------------------------------------------Capt. William "BBall" BallBoeing 757, Northwest AirlinesSenior Editorwww.Frugalsworld.com

>I know full well what it takes to be on the outside looking >in. I've "been there, done >that", and have a huge amount of respect for you guys trying >to achieve the dream > that I live each day at work. Good luck to you all. Work >hard, stay out of trouble, >persevere, and it'll happen....never give up the >dream. Naw...life sucks when you have sickle cell disease:-madall those pilot wannabes better get tested first before you put too much hopes into it