Hi,I refrain to post subjects that have scent of I am bolder, bigger, can p** further, etc. I have put my flame proof jacket on so I am ready for flame punches.Lately, unfortunately I have noted increased ammount of "experts" on forums. Especially, unfortunatelly again, on PMDG forum. Sure, there are real life pilots on these boards, there are also simulator pilots and there are those... ahem... "pilots" that know better than real-life pilots.It is interesting how persons that get hold on AOM, FCTM, and other aircraft related material, position themselves as being more knowledgeable even than pilots... Well... Do you, AOM, FCTM, you_name_it_operation_manual, owners really think that everything is written there? Do you think that pilots learn all the stuff exclusively from that material? Sure, they are important and necessary, but are they non ambiguous, are they selfexplanatory, etc.?Gee, I feel that going to pilot training is a waist of time. Sit home and crunch those pages and you are ready to go. But please do not invite me to be your FO or passenger.The other disturbing thing is double standards. I am not taking any side here. If it is decided not to talk about dates, then let's not talk about them. If you hate being asked about new product, patches or whatever, and tend to trash those that ask, then do not act like it is OK to ask about the same thing as long as it is other's and not "your" product. Yes, I am referring to 737 and 767. It is obvious.Purpose of this message? "Pilots", please be aware of your limitations. Sure, you contribute immenselly to the sim community. But, please, know your limits... Are you so good that you can handle an 737 on an single engine missed app in dark night with gusting sidewinds in mountanious area based on your book knowledge?Off to smell kerosene!Aleksandar

Nice post Alexsandar.My sentiments exactly. This is, afterall, (and HOPEFULLY FOREVER), a hobby. I continue to learn about the PIC every day - in fact, Rob and Murf told me that there's an invisible click spots to set your V-speeds. I'm still hunting for it. ;)That said (I love saying "That said"), I can proudly boast that I am able to man-handle a Plymouth Voyager in Vancouver rush hour traffic with the best of them.Good naturedly yours,Daryl ShuttleworthDS 3339http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

Aleksandar,Good post! Could not agree more.>Lately, unfortunately I have noted increased ammount of>"experts" on forums. Expert: One who knows more and more about less and less until they know absolutely everything about nothing! ;-)-michael

>> "pilots" that know better than real-life pilots.Well, I always enjoy that "tested by real pilots" label on every FS Addon box ....What would some Addons be without the input of the armchair operating manual readers. Mike

Hi"What would some Addons be without the input of the armchair operating manual readers."Less sanctimonious perhaps?;)I like the so called experts that use their manuals like clubs to beat down others who may not be fully up to speed on a particular AC system.You may learn something new but that does`nt make it right.Oh and below is a great example of a so called expert sharing wisdom with another simming brother.It really gave me the warm and fuzzies just reading it.I wonder what manual that came out of?;) http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...25296&mode=fullAnyway great thread and thanks for letting me share and Happy Thanksgiving to all.Ted

Ted,>> Less sanctimonious perhaps? ;);) Well, I think the truth is somewhere im between. Ok, maybe sometimes manuals are used for profiling purpose. But I have been in a few betatests in the last years and I can tell you it was GOOD to have a bunch of paper experts on board to discuss and try to sort things out. Have a big doubt about a certain plane behaviour ? Call Lufthansa Flight training (or the company in charge for their sims), make date, choose plane and there you go in the Full motion sim and check it out and maybe discuss it with an optional instructor. Nothing easier than that (except it's not cheap).Then if that particular plane behaviour comes up in certain fora and I answer, I get: "hey, you fool, how do you know that, do you have a type rating " ? Go figure ...Real pilots in beta teams ? Some developers don't get them at all. And with pilots involved, I have seen everything between pilots that really got involved and some that had their motivation down to zero after seeing how "their" plane was represented in FS.On all the boxes I found "tested by real pilots" afterwards.So it's not so bad at all to have bedtime AOM/FCOM readers involved. As long as they stay on the carpet and are aware of their limitations. Airplane behaviour is rarely written in manuals, but even controversial among pilots sometimes.Oh well, it's a hobby after all. But I'm aware in that particular forum here I put myself in a lions cage saying that :)Mike

Mike"So it's not so bad at all to have bedtime AOM/FCOM readers involved"I agree with this and my statement was not all inclusive towards those that have shared freely with the community.Ian Ridell comes to mind as well as Eric Ernest when he was around amongst others.I`m pointing out that there is a darker side to some of those who lord it over the common simmer to prove snide points.There is a difference.Ted

Unfortunately, there are "morons" on all the forums, this one included. Just look at the responses to the individual who was looking for a FS2004 patch for the PIC a few posts down. I believe in many cases, the "by the book, armchair pilots" are probably more informative than the real world pilots when it comes to Flight Sim. After all this ISN'T real world and all the real world factors simply don't come in to play. I think a couple of the posters were refering to Randy over at PMDG. Personally, he has helped me an incredible amount with his posts. I have owned the PIC for awhile now and the PMDG737 since the day it was released and I get valuable information from both forums from many people.My 2 cents

>> Just look at the responses to the individual who was looking for Yes, some of the policemen here give this place really an ugly impression. I bet some users come here once and then they never come back>> I think a couple of the posters were refering to Randy over at PMDGI think he's beta testing the PMDG and while this can be a damn tough job, it's for sure a very important and valuable contribution for everyone. That's what counts for me :)Mike

Just so you guys know, we have several real active 737NG pilots on the PMDG beta team and they ALWAYS have the last word on the issues - I've been schooled many times by them when I thought something was supposed to work a certain way... (Hi Steve! ;) :D)Ryan

The policemen (as they have been called) - and I am one of them - only step forward when a post has been answered ad nauseam.Let's be realistic. The PIC767 is 3 plus years old - most of the support questions have been asked and answered A LONG TIME AGO. It behooves the forum members to SEARCH the forum for their answer rather than just plumping up a chair and yelling out HELP ME NOW!There is an epidemic of lazy fs-users out there who seem unwilling and/or unable to spend a little time researching and dealing with their problem/question on their own. Spoon feed me NOW!Regarding the next version of the 767, Wade has released the information that it is coming. Isn't that enough?Posting screenshots, while nice to look at, mean nothing. I've "billed and cooed" all over screenshots posted for other commercial fs-aircraft, only to find out that when running on fs it chunks along at 3 frame rates a second (unless you buy a new quantum gigamegahertz computer to run the friggin thing).IMHO, the PIC767 is the best fs-add-on ever. I won't be going over to other forums to announce that fact. I expect the same level of respect from users of OTHER products.Daryl ShuttleworthDS 3339http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

Don't worry Daryl, with service like that I can see many more moving to the helpfull forum where you can ask questions and not be attacked by some non-moderator avsim members....[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Daryl,such posts are arrogant like hell. On the daily basis you'll find worldwide new PC users, new Internet users and new FS users and maybe new 767 enthusiasts. How can you expect they all can deal with fora and whatever search functions ? I bet you did not even notice some people might come here with english not as their native language. Why don't you just ignore the posts then and continue answering something that you find "on your level" to answer. Or at least put an FAQ pinned on top of the forum, should be no big deal to arrange with your self given policeman label.Barking wannabe big dogs, I think I said that already elsewhere. A bit more tolerance would help this forum A LOT.Mike

Randy,can u mail me plse:[email protected] related to above.

Sigh. There must be something of interest over here for you Randy. You keep coming back to add/assist/help, what/who?Or are you just coming over to bait, be superior, and sell the 737? As for being a non-moderator avsim member, has your status changed over here at avsim?Daryl ShuttleworthDS 3339http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg