I'll back Josh on this one.Also, my view of IVAO. I've flown on IVAO three times just to see what it was like compared to VATSIM. I was so disapointed with the quality of the in England, France, and Germany. I flew from London City to Frankfurt in a Boeing 737-400. I had every Airport/Taxiway Diagram, IAP, STAR, SID I needed, and was also running FSnav4. It's not totally professional, but it would get the job done. I flew the same flight a few days later on VATSIM, the ATC was much much better. Anyways, my credentials are a Senior Student with VATSIM's BEST ARTCC, and a couple hundred hours of IFR flying on VATSIM. My real world credentials are about 7 hours in the Citabria, 2 in the Cessna 172, and 10 in the Cessna 150/152s. I'm also an EAA member(1997), and an AOPA member(2002).Paul MeyerMorris,IL C09Cessna 150, 172Bellanca Citabria

>I don't know if there is action anywhere else, please tell me. Speedbird Online, the VATSIM division of BA Virtual, is also running a program for new pilots, both in groups as well as one on one sessions.I still recall my first flight on VATSIM: Shanghai-Heathrow in an A340 - complete with a flightplan created in FSNav3 :-hah

Hi,I haven

>exclusive, by the >way). The goal of both organisations is to >organize more pilots and more ATC, yet they don

Guys,for the last time please stop spreading this false tale about IVAO having more users in europe. This is simply not true.First, remember it was VATSIM Europe that broke the all-time-network record lately with more than 750 concurrent onnections on the network. This happened during VATSIM Europe

Bottom line is IVAO will NEVER be as successful as VATSIM. . .End of discussion.

Well said Martin ;) People tend to forget VATSIM Europe Region is a VATSIM Region, which encompasses three Divisions. One of them, VATSIM Europe Division includes 24 vACCs which in many areas conform to same standards and strongly communicate between them. They are under a joint (simulated) aviation administration which greatly enhances their operation in relation to real operations.Europe's is a prime example of this communication and common administration body in operation.Stay in touch it's coming back early in 2003 !We certainly respect IVAO and its operations but we are also aware that there are huge differences in what users get from each network.Its a very healthy situation the way I see it.Two Greek words which I don't know how often are used in English :Antagonism has always harmed, Synagonism never has ...Kyprianos Biris :-cool[link:vatsim-eur.org|VATSIM Europe] Region Director[link:avsim.com/greece/hvacc]Hellenic vACC]http://vatsim-eur.org/images/VATSIM-EURs.gif>>But please stop saying that IVAO is stronger in Europe >than VATSIM[/b. The opposite thing is right. >>>Yours, >Martin Georg/EDDF >Teamchef Eurowings VA >mailto:[email protected] >>http://home.t-online.de/home/martin_georg/pictures/EW_MG.jpg

if we want to merge IVAO and VATSIM we'll have to pull up the IVAO standard for ATC for sure.But at the same time i hope we could rise the piloting standard as that surely is still a problem.But what would we get then? a society of elite flyers and controllers? that ain't fair in my eyes. Everyone needs to have a shot at it, and don't forget, hotshots were once rookies.Perhaps a thorough educational system that involves students to be able to man(to their rating allowed) stations under supervision of those hotshots, only between certain hours. But of course we'd need those kind of 'instructors' and pilots willing to fly in those areas.It's notthat easy but nothing's impossible

Hold on! I thought we were all about cooperating to make flight simming better for everybody?What's wrong with VATSIM and IVAO pooling resources so we have one big airspace to fly in?Corporations do it all the time - to make things better and more efficient (though I wouldn't want any 'downsizing' as a result of an IVAO/VATSIM merger - LOL).Why don't you want to cooperate? (quote "the end of my use of VATSIM thats for sure") Don't you want to fly online unless it suits your particular preferences, despite what the masses seem (quite reasonably) to be asking for?

If there is 1 thing i do actually HATE about VATSIM, it is their pilot training... havent seen any of that around, while i'd really like to see all of the VATSIM hot shots(who don't own a real life degree) get up to the Commercial Captain rating.I can say i'm currently a Senior flight Captain over there, and if i mention it to controllers they tend to relax more of course as they know i'm capable of complex procedures. They just need to say the word: cleared for the option, and they're left with managing the other traffic. when i DO fly on VATSIM, even in the UK, i notice ATC being great but everything being messed up by the "rookies"If VATSIM would have a rating system implemented for pilots, controllers could more easily reduce their own workload and concentrate more on getting those rookies to learn the basics.By the way, according to me the 'amount of connections' is not really something to rely on. I'd rather have statistics about how many pilots on VATSIM can perform, say the EPINO7 transition and profile exactly as it's supposed to?I think you wouldn't reach 30%I'm not saying IVAO would, but i just don't like you guys praising yourselves up asif you were 'soo much better' than IVAO. I think at IVAO we could easily change the standards to VATSIM standards. Look at the Belgian division for example. Our procedures for clearances are quite complicated. I made a summary of it on 1 A4 page, and i must say without it, i'd have to take alot more time to get those eager pilots their clearance. On the other hand, the BELUX-VACC has 2 controllers regularly online. these are both good and skilled controllers, but i have NEVER EVER seen Brussels delivery, Brussels Ground, Brussels Tower, Antwerp Tower, Charleroi Approach, Charleroi tower, Li

Ive spoke my 100 dollars worth about the lack of a pilot training system, and rating system. Send your complaint to Richard Critz (VP of Pilot Training) Im sure he would be more than happy to explain to you why there is no problem, but there is a VP of Pilot Training. . .Strange isnt it?

What a depressing thread to find in the archive! FSim is a game and it benefits from as many people simulating flight together. There is nothing quite as dull as flying through thousands of acres of empty sky. This dullness becomes frustration when I check on Serverinfo and see that the same area of sky would have a controller in it if two virtual organisations would cooperate.It