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PeterR

Am I Overreacting for Being Irritated

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The DDG Grumman Duck that has been available here for some time now is now available over at flightsim.com as well.The only thing is, I didn't upload it there and don't know who did. AVSIM has been the only place I have uploaded to.I learned of it's upload there by email from a previous AVSIM downloader.My question is this, am I wrong at being upset because whoever uploaded it didn't contact me first?I thought that was the common courtesy and right thing to do. If nothing else, to find out if what you are uploading is complete. I have not downloaded it to see. But they have made no mention of an upgrade patch, which there is. Which means, had I not been told of it and made mention of this fact in their forum, I would be inundated by email from everybody who tries using it with a force-feedback system or who gets a sound file error message.Don't get me wrong. I love this hobby and enjoy sharing my work and repaints. I had considered uploading it there as well for the enjoyment of others but had not done so due to the slow nature of my dial-up modem with such a large file.I am currently working on some repaints; what I do to relax since my current health issue prevents me getting too involved on anything "stressful." You can bet though, that I contacted the original creators of the airplanes to check with them first; a common courtesy.Regards,Heather Anne Sherman

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My response would be for you to contact Nels and ask that the file be removed. (If that is your wish and desire). If you are unable to find his e-mail address, contact me and I'll get it to you, although his address is very accessible. It's hard to say who may have uploaded it, but Nels will surely pull it if you request he do so.Darrell

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I had the same thing happen a week ago with my Gmax Lear45. And I wouldn't have cared if the person (don't know who it was as they didn't provide a name or e-mail address) would have at least included the Readme file with it. I asked Nels to remove it and he did. It was also uploaded to FSPlanet and I asked them to remove it as well, but they just ignored me (as I figured they would).......Rick Sasala

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Heather,I don't think you are overreacting. It's your hard work after all. I allow people to redistribute my files, as long as they don't modify anything (and many ignore this restriction). But I would never think of doing so with someone elses work, without contacting the person first. As you say, "common courtesy".I've found that there's a core group of people who have total disregard for the feelings or wishes of freeware authors. Putting aside the legal issues, they have no concept of things like integrity. "Courtesy" does not appear in their vocabulary. Some of these people are driven by the degenerate concept that anything posted on the internet is "free" and automatically becomes public property. Since we both hail from the midwestern U.S., I think you will find that we bring a different set of values to the table then some.And before anyone takes insult, I'm not talking about the majority of the people on Avsim, or the internet in general. I'm talking about a distinct yet significant group of people who ride the information highway. And they expect that ride to be free and to their benefit.Mike Stone

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I don't think you're over-reacting at all. You make very good points, especially when there are modifications involved.When uploading to Avsim, I believe there are choices you elect relative to how you wish your file(s) to be treated with respect to freeware, distribution, etc.I think it might be a consideration to include within the Readme file something to the effect that distribution must be limited to Avsim only, if that were your wish. I myself will do this in the future. I'm sure such an exclusion would be honoured by Nels and others of his integrity. There is no accounting, however, for those who choose to disregard any and all manner of author's rights.

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I understand fully Heather. However, let me put just a little bit of a different spin on this... It could have been no more complex than a well meaning fan wanting to see your a/c distributed far and wide, thinking that they were doing good for both you and the community. We see that here frequently, and as a matter of policy, remove files that are not uploaded by the author or without their permission to do so. As was pointed out in this thread, I am sure that if you ask, Nels will of course remove your file.

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Heather - I also read your post at Flightsim - I don't think you are overreacting. I believe you made your point quite well over there. You also indicated that you were going to upload it yourself but hadn't gotten around to it. Altho, in the real world it's almost impossible to control what other people do with your work, you might ask Nels to remove it, which I'm positive he will honor and then upload the correct version yourself. This way you can ensure that the files are complete.I have seen many times where authors will request no uploads without prior permission - the decent folks will honor it but there are still those who believe the inet is their own private playground.It's a fun plane and, IMHO, should be distributed more BUT only with your approval.vgb

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Hi Tom,Yes, that thought had occured to me as well. I all too well remember a time when, with all best intentions, and what I thought was the correct permission, got myself into a little hot water over the Rambow/Chaffin DC-3.I realize that this may very well be the case and for that reason, maintained an air of civility in my post over there and pointed out that besides courtesy, for any future applications, it would do well to check with the originating author to make sure that the material to be uploaded is current.As with the Duck, I still get emails from people who are unaware of the upgrade patch.Had he asked first, I would have been more than happy to allow this, since he/she would have been doing me a favor because it takes me forever to upload with my dial-up modem. But I would have been sure to see that he/she had the latest material too.If whoever uploaded this reads this post, I appreciate what you did if in the case of what Tom mentioned. Just check with me in the future so that we can make sure we're compatible on material, okay? Please.As mentioned before, I enjoy sharing my work. My association here makes me partial and bias to AVSIM, but I would not raise a kiniptionfit were any of my work to be posted elsewhere, unless specifically stated in the read_me to the contrary.If the original package was uploaded, I think any problems or flood of email has been remedied as I also posted there news in regards to the upgrade available here.Anyway, I will leave it alone. To have it removed out of pride, irritation, or whatever, would not give me any satisfaction as it would only selfishly deprive others of the work. I'm not out to do that.Again, I just wanted to clear my conscience of guilt that I was feeling a bit irritated.And now, back to my paint hangar. You may see what I am currently doing at:http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID43/1065.htmlCheers!Heather

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Great point Tom, and I'm sure that is just what happens in many cases. I view it as a compliment from a user who wants to see something they view as good, be made available to as many people as possible. This happens with my files all the time. Which is why I gnerally allow redistribution of my files. But in spite of the fact that I approve of this activity, many peope still see fit to contact me and say "I plan to upload your plane to xxxxxxx, and I just wanted to make sure you didn't have a problem with that". I got one such note just the other day. I think this is all Heather is talking about.Mike Stone

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>. Altho, in the real >world it's almost impossible to control what other people do >with your work, I believe that this is a good point! The Internet and the Fsim community ARE part of the real world -- IMO, it would be naive to think that you could place your possessions alongside the highway and expect that sooner or later some person will not pick them up, steal them , move them , give them to someone else , etc , etc. I believe the same thing applies to freeeware that is placed in public places in the virtual world -- sooner or later, the same thing is going to happen and freeware developers are being naive to expect otherwise. Sorry fellas - just my opinion - and , in the interests of your own mental state , I believe it should be yours as well. We don't live in a perfect world and never will.Barry

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Hi Barry,I fully agree with you and fully expected this to happen sooner or later. Again, the inital content of the topic since I initially felt guilty about being upset about it.Yes, I can step outside and place a lawn ornament very close to the street. No, I would not be happy if it turned up missing in the morning and I saw same said, or suspiciously similar lawn ornament elsewhere on someone elses lawn; although, in this day and age, I would not be entirely surprised. Doesn,t mean that I am going to be happy about it.I was just upset that they hadn't checked with me first. Call it vanity, ego, whatever you like. Not including the rest of the team, I had over three hundred hours into this project so I don't think it's unnatural to feel a little protective of it.When it comes down to it, no harm was done and it is now available in two places, instead of one, and is still free for whomever would like to use it. To move on, I will give the benefit of doubt and, as Tom suggested, assume that the person had all the best intents and take it as a compliment that they thought that highly of it.Ce La Vie (or however you spell that)Cheers!Heather

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Heather, I think trying to control who does what on the internet is impossible. So, being irritated by seeing the evidence of this would be a waste of my time. Depends on your goals and your beliefs if it is wasting your time.You may still think you can control the internet, or perhaps you have strong reasons to want your files handled a certain way, or perhaps you enjoy controversy to some degree and describing a violation like this, sometimes actually creates community. If making contact with others who feel good expressing their frustrations is really the point, then this is NOT a waste of time. Depends really on the types of CHANGES or ACTIONS you hope to see as a result of expressing your irritation.Bob Bernstein

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Heather,I don't think you're overreacting. I believe most every freeware author goes through it. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending upon how you look at it, once your stuff is out there it'll be everywhere if people like it. So, don't feel guilty over being perturbed about how the Duck got where it did.Peter http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/PeterR.gifBFU Forums ModeratorDuck Design Group[table border=2 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=1][tr][td][table border=0 cellpadding=8 cellspacing=0][tr][td bgcolor=#540000]http://bfu.avsim.net/sigpics/logo75t.gif[/td][td align="center" bgcolor=#FFFFF6]Bush Flying Unlimited"At home in the wild"Looking for adventure? Come join us! * [link:bfu.avsim.net|Web Site] * [link:www.cafepress.com/bfu,bfu2,bfu3,bfu4|BFU Store] * [link:bfu.avsim.net/join.htm]Join!][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table

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