This was the original question:>Or those jet planes are normally designed to reduce speed only with>throttle at idle? The answer is yes! Regardless if it's a Motorglider or a Concorde.I'm still waiting to see a Concorde using the speedbrakes!You are all refering to ATC restriction and not to own planning.Again, if you are too stupid to calculate your descend you shouldn't be in a cockpit. Same if you are too stupid to anticipate the 250kts restriction.It's that simple.Regards Bernt Stolle Capt CRJ

Dear Capt Stolle,I don't appreciate your calling pilots that use speed brakes stupid.I'll match my 18000hrs+ with yours, over 8000 in DC-9's , 2000 in 757's and 1600 in DC-10's and at my airline they expect the pilots to use all the tools that are available to them. It's attitudes like yours that make it hard for those of us that have worked in training departments to dispell "Old wives tales".Ed WeberNorthwest Airlines Retired

Actually I follow the FS2002 ATC most of the time and I don't need to use speed brakes except for twice in all these months (because I had 150 kts winds pushing me forward)... Although when the ATC says "descend and maintain blah" I do set an aim as to how far off I will be at that altitude!By the way where are the Concorde speed brakes :-hmmmKitty MercuryCathay Pacific Virtual Pilot (CX252)

Do not Exist.Paul MeyerMorris C09Bellanca CitabriaCessna 150, 152, 172

Ed, The main 'tool' is the computer between your ears and ability.I would appreciate if you READ exactly what I've written.Maybe your are already so old that your eyes are too bad to do so.If not, I'm glad that I don't know your training department.But I still remember, when the northwest pilots apparently trained by your department,landed their DC-10 in Franfurt instead of Brussels UNINTENTIONALLY!!!So much for dangerous stupidity! Bernt Stolle Capt CRJ

God, you're pathetic...Someone wants to learn something here. That's all...

I've know of one incident that the pilots also lowered the landing gear to create drag, spoilers up to flight detend, nose down, speed close to max gear extension IAS and dive for an emergency landing. It's a B744!

JubileeI havent got the jet time of either Bernt or Tallpilot and only fly Slowtations.Going into Antwerp in the Citation Five which has a very high gear speed of 250 kts we were held high for too long and had to have more drag to make the runway.We decided to drop the gear at 250 kts instead of extending the speedbrakes more as an experiment.The noise and pitch change at that speed was immense ;-) Speed brakes in the citation are noisy as well and as you are trying to make the flight as smooth and comfortable as possible for your passengers we tend to rarely use them unless forced to either by ATC or a miscalculation.Peter

Hi Peter,Long time no hear :-)We sometimes have to use the gear at 250 as well but it scares the hell out of the passengers who are sitting in the vicinity of the gear.Sounds like an explosion!In the meantime our planes are so 'old' >5000hrs that the hydraulic pumps or unable to cope with that load.So if you forget to non-standard switch on additional hydraulics you get a whole bunch of master warnings and cautions like: gear disagree, nose door etc...This in turn scares the hell out of new co-pilots. LOL BTW. I'm just designing a Citation II for x-plane 6.4.The FM is already capable of the following things.100% correct Vmca,1st,2nd,final segment climb, landing approach climb. 1 and 2 engine crz and ceiling.The famous one power setting for cln level, app flaps level, full flap & gear down 3deg glide works as well.Things fs2002 FMs will never be able to do ;-)May I e-mail you a few question about the II ?Best RegardsBernt

Bernt,You attack others suggesting they are stupid but I would respectfully suggest that any "real" captain would know that Concorde does not have speedbrakes.Please don't ever consider flying one - you would look very stupid asking the co-pilot where the speedbrake is!

BerntThe Citation 2 gear speed is 176 kts thats why I always am amazed that the Citation 5 gear speed is 250 kts :-)In the 2 we often cant make higher levels until the fuel has burned off while the five still shows 800 fpm passing FL 390.In our part of the world we will outclimb the "heavies" and often go into the tropopause at up to 45000 feet :-)I have the full flight manual for the Citation 2 so if theirs any info you need E mail me.IMO both you and Tall Pilot are correct as we dont by choice use speedbrakes other than after touchdown to assist braking but are forced to by our own miscalculations or problems given to us by ATC.All the best to you and Tallpilot but do keep it friendly ;-)Peter

So we can all agree on the following: If we are not considering dynamic ATC requirements, proper planning allows efficient descent to the outer marker sans boards.Upon including ATC requirements, which in the United States, tend towards the hot and fluid, the use of boards becomes utilitarian.Sounds like we're all arguing the same principles.Bernt, why so angry?Christopher "Chandler" L.United States Marine Corps, VMFA-321

Ray,Why do you think that I mentioned specifically the Concorde?!If the speedbrakes are sooo essential, how can the Concorde fly in the same airspace with all the other much slower planes.Please don't ever consider posting before thinking !Bernt Stolle Capt CRJ

Hi,What Bernt said was this:"I'm still waiting to see a Concorde using the speedbrakes!"It doesn't say that Concorde as speed brakes. Obviously being a CRJ Captain and moving around in the aviation business, he knows the Concorde doesn't have speed brakes.Best regards,Pedro

Christopher,>If we are not considering dynamic ATC requirements, proper planning>allows efficient descent to the outer marker sans boards.That's exactly what I've mentioned in the first place!I do get angry if 'real?' pilots are not willing to read properly just to state something different.RegardsBernt Stolle Capt CRJ