If you are using speed brakes then you are not planning your descent very well.Speed brakes are wasting fuel, causing cabin noise, etc. etc.Using them means you have made a mistake in your descent planning or ATC has made a mistake and need you down quicker.

>Bernt, >><Concorde?!>> >>May I refer you to your original statement... >><speedbrakes!>> >>This suggests to me that you believe Concorde has >speedbrakes but has yet to deploy them. Hence my reply. Sorry Ray -- but you lose! You have read something into Bernts' statement that just isn't there -- so don't blame him for your incorrect inferrence."I'm still waiting to see an elephant using speedbrakes" -- please don't read into this that I am implying that I believe that Elephants have speedbrakes. :)Pedantic Barry

Barry,<>You're quite entitled to your opinion Barry but I'm afraid I don't agree that I lost. This wasn't about who won and who lost as far as I'm concerned - just about being civil to each other and Bernt definitely wasn't that.I wouldn't have bothered replying to the Concorde speedbrake thing had Bernt been reasonable in his replies to others. But, he was quite rude and it was that that made me want to respond.Let that be an end to things - please.

...and I'm sure that Captain Stolle is really popular with his new first officers at his airline. God help the poor soul that goes for the speed brake handle on Captain Stolle's aircraft :-lol :-lol :-lolI PITY THE FOOL who deploys the speed brakes!!!! :-lol>Again, if you are too stupid to calculate your descend you >shouldn't be in a cockpit. >Same if you are too stupid to anticipate the 250kts >restriction. >It's that simple. This has to be the MOST unprofessional statement I've seen from a "professional" in a long time.Mike T.

Don't expect pilots to be linguistical genii (though, in this case, English wasn't the mother tongue, so, as Bernt said: kann passieren).Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Ray is correct - the aircraft has no trouble at all fitting into subsonic aircraft traffic patterns. Believe it or not, when you close the throttles (or at least to 32 degrees, Idle is rarely used on descent for two reasons - (1) Air is required for the Air Con' and Packs and (2) you'll get a 'pop serge' in the engine while transonic) - anyway, back to descent ;-) - the aircraft will fall out of the sky! Many pilots here have reported that the speed brake is used when ATC issue additional height restrictions. As Ray has pointed out, Concorde is not equipped with speed brakes, but the aircraft does have a nifty feature - Idle Reverse. This is where any of the four engines (usually done in pairs, and it is common practice that Engs 2+3 are used) are placed into idle reverse during flight. As I stated above, when the throttles are idle, the aircraft will have a high rate of descent. Engage Idle reverse, and you'll be plummeting at up to 11,000fpm! I'm not sure what restrictions are in place for use of the more common speed brake - however the Idle Reverse feature has the following limitations for use: -1) Must be subsonic2) Must be below 30,000ft3) Must be below 370KIAS4) Can only be used for a maximum of 4mins - which is ridiculous as after this time the aircraft would have hit the ground!Also a Cabin announcement has to be made, and of course, the seat belt sign has to be switched on :-lolThis method of rapidly descending is hardly ever used; maybe only a dozen times in a pilots career!I have strayed a little from the speed brake topic, but I hope it was of interest to some of you :)Andrewhttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dc0629457f3286f.jpg

Hi Andrew,How nice to hear from you :-)I was watching the ITVV Concorde video just the other day and reverse thrust was mentioned although unfortunately they didn't use it on that flight. As you say the descent rate is rarely used - probably best for passenger comfort- especially rich passengers ;-)Just another feature that keeps it light-years ahead of its sub-sonic competition even without speedbrakes ;-)Cheers,

Ditto Mike T.!I would venture to say that in my 22 years of experience flying different aircraft types, seldom my descent plans have materialized. ATC controls your life the minute you get 100 - 120 NM from the field.The SpeedBrake handle becomes a good friend very often. This whole topic has absolutely nothing to do with good or bad airmanship folks!!Sincerely,Dennis D. Mullerthttp://www.aavirtual.com/images/aav205_banner.gif[/img]

Capt Bernt,Your ignorance and lack of tact is epic! Rather than call a pilot "stupid" for using their speedbrake, I disagree and would go so far as to say that it is the pilot that does not use all the tools available to him/her as the foolish one. Then again, I guess we aren't all lucky enough to be expert CRJ captains are we...Oh, and another thing, would you agree based on your assumption that a race car driver is stupid for using their brakes? I mean after all if they had planned in advance of their turn they wouldn't need to would they?

Mike,>In many cases, we are at 5 miles out of KDCA with the flaps still >deployed trying to get to Vref+5 or risking floating down the runway >and going around.What do you mean with still deployed?Are you retracting them before landing ?I assume you mean still deploying ?!But what's so special about flap deployment at 5 miles.Are are really such a bad pilot that you actually fear to do go around from a 5 miles final ????No I fully understand why you NEED speedbrakes on every flight. >I cannot count... I assumed that. (tearing my statement apart seems to be your favourite)>...how many times flights into KDCA have had the speed brakes >deployed while dropping flaps AND gear while capturing the ILS >because you get decent to the FAF to capture the GS from some >ungodly altitude and you need to be at some semblance of an approach >speed before you rip your flaps off.Very professional. I'm impressed.Ever considered using the simple phrase 'unable' ????A much safer and much more professional way of airline flying than ripping the flaps off.>This has to be the MOST unprofessional statement I've seen from >a "professional" in a long time.Better an unprofessional statement(which isn't the case if one is able to READ, which apparently isn't one of your strong points),than beeing an obviously unprofessional pilot like you!>God help the poor soul that goes for the speed brake handle on>Captain Stolle's aircraftHave you ever condidered supporting your F/Os? Ever considered helping them in their timely decision making?What a well thought statement. Again, I'm impressed. Bernt Stolle Capt CRJ

Get a life Berntie, from your tone, perspective, and lack of manners it's pretty clear to me that your are neither a pilot nor a gentleman. Are you a Frankfurt controller by any chance?The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are renowned as a short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location, but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a Pan Am 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747, call sign "Speedbird 206": Speedbird 206: "Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway."Ground: "Speedbird 206. Taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven." The BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop. Ground: Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?"Speedbird 206: "Stand by, Ground, I'm looking up our gate location now."Ground (with arrogant impatience): "Speedbird 206, haff you not been to Frankfurt before?"Speedbird 206 (coolly): "Yes, twice in 1944 but I didn't stop."

I think most pilots are more mature, fortunately ;-)