Ok Bob!I will keep an eye out for the clearance and thanks for the heads up on that. Fortunately I am not in a rush to jump in and grab the items ASAP so I will take the added time to research and get compatability confirmations from each manufacturer and vendor in writing (I have found this to be a good idea) just in case I need to exchange anything.As you have noticed I also hold an extra class ticket and am one of those fortunate few who have been constantly nagged at about my complete electronics workshop taking up an entire bedroom "hi hi". At least I am well equiped and that includes all necessary gear for surface mount work also. All I need are the schematics but I sure hope I do not have to go there LOL.I used to work on TV's and two way radios for an outside income. Now that I am retired and had my major heart attack (not much fun) I have slowed down quite a bit but still have customers coming in for MARS mods and freq. alignments from time to time.Some day when I hook up the screwdriver at the apt. where I live maybe we can make contact. I took everything down when conditions started getting bad and never got around to hooking it back up. I did leave a 2 meter and 70cm beam up in the attic so I can keep in touch with the local hams. Like so many of us I am not really an VHF/UHF fan and usually leave it off turning it on only to check into a few emergency nets from time to time.(Sorry fellas im getting way off topic, Im done)73 de N9ZNMonty

Hey Bob and all,I caved in and made another purchase after getting the CFO's approval :-) I went out and got a new case, the Antec 900. Since I was using a standard non-gamer case recycled from my previous PC, I was finding the temps to be a little higher than I liked and after reading Bob's response about cases, I decided that a better case was needed. So enter the Antec 900...Wow what a case it is, I'm impressed with the quality and design of the case. Its got 2 monster 120mm fans in the front that are inside a cage where you can install up to 3 HDs per cage (there's 2 cages total). Both cages are attached to the chasis by thumb screws (4 per side). The neat thing about this is you can mount the cages up or down the front. In the rear, there's a single 120mm fan blowing out the back and get this, a whopper 200mm blower fan at the top that blows heat out the top of the case. I thought it would be noisy but with all fans set to medium, I barely hear anything just a slight whispy whirring but not enough to irritate me or the wife. The odd thing about the case is the power supply is at the bottom which is somewhat of a new design now. But it makes sense about the design because if you understand how heat works, heat rises, cold air sinks. So cooler air is always at the floor and the power supply draws in cool air keeping itself much cooler.The cooling performance is something, with all these fans especially the 200mm whopper (the blades look like the ones you see on the RR Trents or the GE90 powerplants) I'm registering a little over a 10 degrees Celsius drop in temps across the board. My C2D drops to 24/21 at Idle (43/40 at load), motherboard temp is sitting at 26C down from 38C, GPU drops to 44 from 54 at Idle (59 at load). I'm impressed with the Antec 900 and I feel I made the right choice, its all black and sleek looking, the USB, firewire, audio and power/reset switch are at the top rather than at the bottom which makes it easier to access as I don' t have to bend down.Overall, a great case, good price... paid $129 CDN for it which isn't too shabby for the cooling power I'm seeing!Cheers,JasonEDIT: This case is great for those who do not want to get into water cooling for reasons of cost or just don't plainly want to risk having water near your expensive parts :-)

>All in all, my quest to show you my kind of setup and how FS>runs has I think generated enough of a response that has>actually been constructive and benefital to others as a>comparision setup. I don't expect you all to build exactly the>same system as mine, but to see it as a general idea of where>to shoot for in an upgrade or a new build. >>Lets keep this thread going, its becoming valuable information>for upgrading or building a new system from the ground up. >>Cheers,>>Jason>>Jayson, I agree that this thread is invaluable and your pick must have been obviously dirven by information you found over the year that you took to decide what to build. I think it is wonderful that you found some solid data upon which to build a very nice and in fact the best combination of components you could find at this point in PC technology development.I found the system the same way. I did not notice this thread until after I had been browsing the articles at Extreme Tech, Toms Hardware, and a few other sites. The most impressive article was the one I found at Extreme tech where the comparason was done with the E6600 vs the E6800 CPU's as I recall.I still must thank you a great deal for putting this up on this board. What you began added new insight validating the direction I had already begun to move toward. I have the issue solved with the heat sinks affecting your mobo and the newer heat sink mounting. According to NOTCHUA, EVGA has a revised board out which fixed the problem. I learned of this in an e-mail I received from Notchua a few days ago. It seems the caps have been redesigned on the latest version of the EVGA 680i mobo. Now this leads me to another observation presently in development. I am wondering why the new revision of the EVGA board took place? Was it to resolve memory issues with the first board? As I recall there were some issues with memory speed etc., those things were discussed on the EVGA web site in the memory thread for the EVGA 680i. Now I am in an investigative mode to find out if other issues have been resolved and what the corrections were. This is important to me as it may have affected other things related to the mobo. Hopefully whatever was afected was for the better all around and will not affect the amount of overclocking one can gain. Before I buy anything I am going to find out what the latest revision(s) of all the products I intend to use are are. I will discuss the revision(s) with product support and find out why they were made and what the impact is for the board in other areas. Again if all is well I will be buying the latest revision.Thank you for getting this thread rolling. I believe we still have more to learn on this great system based on intel Core 2 Duo CPU's, EVGA 680I motherboards, Corsair memory, and the EVGA 8800 GPU's.In fact I wish we had a way to have voice discussions here. I find a good verbal discussion is worth a million words.Great insight on the board Jayson!MontyTampa, Florida

Monty,Not sure what revision of a board I have but the Noctua mounting brackets fit over the caps with plently of clearance. The brackets are aligned vertically when you are looking at the board in the case. The revisions on the boards by EVGA have had to do with moving the capacitors around the CPU to a different location because it was discovered that certain CPU coolers could not be mounted. Also the resistors on the bottom of the board underneath the CPU socket were moved because some mounting brackets were hitting the resistors and possibly crushing them. I don't know about the change to the memory controllers, I'm seeing 2 different stories to it... one camp says its been changed, the other says it hasn't but has been addressed in BIOS revisions. My board is running perfect, I haven't had memory issues nor clearance issues so I'm quite happy with the hardware. Each flight in FS is becoming more and more fun and its getting harder to surpass each flight experience. Perhaps once I can get the TrackIR 4...hmm time to talk to the CFO again :-)My latest purchase was a new case, the Antec 900, I posted about it below this post. Excellent case, excellent cooling performance, very impressive.I agree, what we need going here is good honest, straight up view about our hardware experiences and the likes. I am not in any way biased towards EVGA or Intel. I was an AMD/ATI user for nearly 10 years until Nvidia and Intel came out with better hardware, I was actually hesistant in making the change over! But I am glad I did, my experience with Nvidia and Intel has been pleasant so far. To this date I remain neutral as to what my preference is with AMD/ATI and Nvidia/Intel both have great hardware, its almost hard to pick the best nowadays but right now I'm seeing better bang for my buck with Nvidia/Intel setup. Funny I haven't had any real troubles with EVGA despite whats happening over at their forums. Those are a small percentage of users that are having trouble, I'd say 2-3%. How is your search/setup going these days? decided on what your going to go with? Cheers,Jason

>Monty,>>Not sure what revision of a board I have but the Noctua>mounting brackets fit over the caps with plently of clearance.>The brackets are aligned vertically when you are looking at>the board in the case. I am really glad to hear that you aparently have the board which was revised and equally well very happy that you are not having an issues with it not that I expected any.>>I don't know about the change to the memory controllers,>I'm seeing 2 different stories to it... one camp says its been>changed, the other says it hasn't but has been addressed in>BIOS revisions. >I agree with this since most of those who are having or had issues were trying to run memory other than that which had been previously approved by EVGA as compatible. That was my understanding from a quick read. I didn't pay a lot of attention since I intend to buy the high end corsair memory anyway. (Overclocking each part of the system is in my plan.)>>My board is running perfect, I haven't had memory issues nor>clearance issues so I'm quite happy with the hardware. >>My latest purchase was a new case, the Antec 900, I posted>about it below this post. Excellent case, excellent cooling>performance, very impressive.>I also am looking at a case designed by Zalman. The case may be a bit small after re-thinking but I sure do like the way it looks. I love the case apperance but I may need to look at another case this one may be too small. I am thinking now that I may go with one designed to be a fanless case or nearly so. I am still out on this issue however what ever I pick it will be a high end case somewhere up in the $300 + range.I also am looking at water cooling as it would drop the temps even more than fans alone. If I can get my CFO to agree I may go with phase cooling (sort of like a tiny fridge mounted on the chip) but this is an area I need to investigate much more first. The cost is high and the benefit may not justify it, this is true of water as well.>>I agree, what we need going here is good honest, straight up>view about our hardware experiences and the likes. >YES, YES, YES! FSX is so new that the field of users with technology to run it is sparse at best. This thread will save anyone getting ready to build a box for FSX countless hours if they take heart in what is said here. >>How is your search/setup going these days? decided on what>your going to go with? >I want to move ahead so badly. I have made myself agree to not move an inch untill I have it all down in writing even if it takes me several more weeks before I start buying the gear. If I get lucky a price or two may drop or a better component may come along. There is so much to read up on and frankly this is a good thing because I need to get up to speed on todays PC technology anyway, I am a mainframe / mini mainframe kind of guy due to education and work.This is not my only hobby I also am an Amature Radio buff. I track satellites and I like to communicate around the world using them as space born repeaters. Being a ham is pretty cool, I have talked to Astronauts in the International Space Station and in the Shuttle over 5 times during the past few years using a handheld VHF/UHF rig with a home made hand held beam antenna. All astronauts must be licensed Amature Radio Ops before they fly, it's a part of the pre-flight training. Even the Russians are licensed Amatures. Finding them on the radio is a challenge, they normally are busy with the mission first as it should be. It would be very cool to fly an FSX mission or two on the server with other hams, like Bob, while in actual High Frequency radio contact.You can read up on where I am with the PC project in the thread. I felt posting my progress would provide insight for others and it keeps me on the right track. Thanks to experts like you, Bob, and others posting facts and excellent advice I will be much less likely to make a design mistake. Each of you deserve and have earned my gratitude in great abundance for the advice and corrections you have offered.Stay tuned I will be back with updates within a week or two. Before I know it my new PC system will be ready to fly. My wife is getting interested in a co-pilot position and I have not been able to get her up in a real GA plane for anything. Maybe this will help change that. My health will not presently allow for FAA medical certification (heart issues) and I am hoping that will change. I still go up with a few licensed friends on $100 hamburger runs from time to time.Thanks to all!MontyTampa, Florida

A couple thoughts...I am not a fan of below-ambient-temp cooling solutions, like phase change systems--especially in a humid locale like Tampa. They produce cold points in an otherwise warm environment and introduce condensation into the case, requiring at minimum a silicon rubber coating on the mobo, which destroys the ability of lesser components to cool themselves. If I were going to use phase-change, I'd put it in an environmentally controlled (dehumidified) compartment.Water cooling is in the realm of the possible, but fans are still needed in the case to cool the chipset, memory etc.I used to work AO-13 regularly before it re-entered...then AO-10 a couple of times after it came back from the dead. Have had all the radios (covering everything from 160m to microwave) in storage for years now. Never worked the Shuttle or ISS...have that on my list of things to do when I've retired and can plant a suitable antenna farm.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for the last few weeks and have learned alot. Thanks very much! The build I plan to start is as follows:Core 2 Duo X6800, 680i mobo, 8800 GTX OC 600mhz 768MB, Corsair Dominator 8500 C5D, Zalman 9500, 2x WD Raptor 10,000rpm SATA HD, w/Win XP, case/ power supply??Bob and Jason, I like both your cases and am having difficulty deciding which way to go. Given the specs of the system is there really a stand out winner. Has anyone researced the Silverstone TJ09. A number of Xtream gaming sites seem to favour this case slightly over the Coolmaster 830 which looks outstanding!.Another decision is an exceptional power supply. The OCZ GameXStream 850W, Silverstone Zeus 850W and PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 1KW 1000W all seem top end, but given my limited knowledge of hardware I may be completly off base. In your valued opinion which do you feel is the best of the best? Also, planning on running three monitors, min 21". Enough jam or need to use my other system to share the load?Any other suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.ThanksDanny SCYVR

>Hi everyone, I have been following this thread for the last>few weeks and have learned alot. Thanks very much! The build I>plan to start is as follows:>Core 2 Duo X6800, 680i mobo, 8800 GTX OC 600mhz 768MB, Corsair>Dominator 8500 C5D, Zalman 9500, 2x WD Raptor 10,000rpm SATA>HD, w/Win XP, case/ power supply??>Bob and Jason, I like both your cases and am having difficulty>deciding which way to go. Given the specs of the system is>there really a stand out winner. Has anyone researced the>Silverstone TJ09. A number of Xtream gaming sites seem to>favour this case slightly over the Coolmaster 830 which looks>outstanding!.I went with the CoolerMaster based on my last case, also a CoolerMaster. Didn't really look elsewhere.>Another decision is an exceptional power supply. The OCZ>GameXStream 850W, Silverstone Zeus 850W and PC Power & Cooling>Turbo Cool 1KW 1000W all seem top end, but given my limited>knowledge of hardware I may be completly off base. In your>valued opinion which do you feel is the best of the best? I really think a 1KW PS is massive overkill for this system. I used a 750W supply to have the ability to comfortably go with dual 8800s if I want to...can't see anything on the horizon that calls for 1KW. I like the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W that I have because it's one high-current rail rather than multiple lower-current rails.>Also, planning on running three monitors, min 21". Enough jam>or need to use my other system to share the load?Depends on what you're doing with them. The 8800 should drive a TripleHead2Go at 3840x1024x32 well enough...but you'll need LCD displays, since it only supports 60Hz refresh at that kind of res. I use two 22-in NEC flatscreen CRTs driven by the 8800GTX at 1600x1200x32 at 75Hz.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Well, I've decided I don't love my Zalman 7700-Cu CPU cooler so much any more. With ambient temps around ~20 deg C in the room, my X6800 CPU is still running warmer than I'd like to see...it pushes 55-60 deg C with the CPU at 3.2GHz and FS9 running.After some research, I have decided to try the Tuniq-120 Tower. Considered a TEC (Peltier junction) hybrid (the Vigor Monsoon II), but I have concerns as to how a 50W rated Peltier will work long-term on top of a 75W rated X6800...and if the Peltier stops working, it becomes a ceramic insulator on top of the CPU. Actually had a Peltier strip do this on a Pentium-III machine a number of years ago...bad juju.Anyway, the Tuniq is still pretty much the King in most current reviews...and costs a third of what the Monsoon goes for. Will post results here after the change.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Wow, you have picked nearly the exact same components that I had picked out for my new build up until recently. Everything from the HDD's to the memory to the GPU to the cases you are trying to decide between. I thought I would go ahead and tell you what I decided to do even though you may not be interested since you still plan on running Windows XP on your system.Well, with all the delays being announced for FSX getting its DX10 fix (I don't think we will see this until very late this year at the earliest), and the lack of any other DX10 games to be released in the near future, and of course all of the bugs that will need to be worked out on a new OS like Vista, I have decided to delay my upgrade. Why build a PC that is complete overkill for playing any games that are currently available in the marketplace. A machine like this is simply not needed today, and probably won't be needed until late this year or early next year. This was my line of thinking. I could wait until late this year and build this system for about $1000 to $1500 less in costs. Or, I could wait until late this year and buy newer and better components that are not available today for nearly the same overall cost that I would spend if I were to build today. Either I would save a bunch of money, or end up with a better machine. A machine with these specs is just ahead of its time by about a year right now since we are just now moving over into the Vista/DX10 era of gaming. Vista and DX10 simply will not be the standard for game developers for at least another year or two when more and more people will have Vista/DX10 capable machines.Just my two cents. Maybe you are wanting to do more stuff with your computer than what I was wanting to do with mine. If that is this case, my two cents are completely irrelevant to you, so go for it. I have spend many hours researching available computer components and found out the exact same things as you have obviously. As far as I am concerned, I will be sticking to an incremental upgrade of my GPU only if I do anything at all right now. I will then sink a couple of thousand dollars into a new build late this year or early next when it will be more usable to me.

Well, I am absolutely loving the "overkill" on the new PC. I upgraded from a 3.06GHz P4-HT, with a gig of ram and a 256MB AGP nVidia 6800. FS9 ran OK at 20-25fps, but with a need to carefully control load factors...i.e. I could run with bad wx, or complex aircraft, or into complex sceneries...but not all three at once. Now I can put the PMDG 744 into FlyTampa Miami with nasty convective wx all over the place with 30 fps and a separate spot view window on monitor #2 open full time.I also wanted to build the new PC while WinXP was still the mainstream OS...didn't want a new piece of hardware that's designed for Vista (which I may or may not never use) with less than sterling WinXP driver support. My hardware is designed for WinXP with less than sterling Vista support...Anyway, overkill, if you can afford it, is a cool thing to have.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Sure it is. You will get no argument from me on that end. If you are happier with what you have then you did the right thing. I guess what I was saying was that I am happy with all of my current games and how they run on my current system. I have had my system for over three years now, and I am still pretty much running everything I play at full settings except for FSX of course (I guess I shouldn't even count that one since I don't even have it installed on my machine right now). I can definitely run FS9 at very acceptable levels on my system using many add-ons (such as Level-D's 767 and DreamFleet's 727), and pretty much full visuals on everything else (weather, terrain, ect....). I even run a ton AI traffic and get very acceptable performance levels. So, as for me, I am not going to upgrade until I am ready to go to Vista and start playing new DX10 games when they come out. I guess I am a little surprised my system is still handling everything so well. I have a P4 3.0GHZ processor, 1GB of RAM, and an ATI 9800XT Graphics Card. Maybe I am just not playing the games that would blow my current system away.

One thing to remember with the fast RAM though is that benchmarks may tell one story but in the real world, you'll notice hardly any difference between good 6400 and 8500 at timings between 333 and 555.If it's worth the price premium then that's up to you.

>One thing to remember with the fast RAM though is that>benchmarks may tell one story but in the real world, you'll>notice hardly any difference between good 6400 and 8500 at>timings between 333 and 555.>>If it's worth the price premium then that's up to you.Well, it depends on how you use it.I use 2GB of Mushkin Redline DDR2-8000 (1000 MHz) RAM, which is built with the pretty amazing Micron D9 chip. I run it at 800 MHz, but at very tight CAS 3 timings and synched to the FSB, which significantly reduces the number of dead CPU cycles spent waiting for memory data to be ready.Most DDR2-6400 (800 MHz) RAM is rated at CAS 5, some can be pushed to CAS 4 at 800 MHz.It does make a difference in a CPU-intensive app like FS, especially at very fast CPU overclocks between 3.6 and 4.0 GHz on my C2X 6800.That said, I'd agree that CAS 5 DDR2-8500 running unlinked from the FSB at 1066 MHz isn't likely to water your eyes when compared to good quality CAS 4 DDR2-6400 running linked and synched to the FSB at 800 MHz.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Yep, agree with you. The best thing to go for is 1:1 synchronous CPU and RAM which is usually within PC6400 limits.There are plenty of users though that think they can just put PC8500 in there, set the BIOS accordingly and their memory is then running at that speed.