OK, I know this topic has been discussed in the past but I do not know if anyone has ever come up with an answer for it. Why is it that flying over the Atlantic at 350, my TAT goes from -11 to +29??? Surely this has to be a bug? I am 8 hours into a flight right now and almost plummeted out of ths sky until I realized what the issue really was, disengaged all a/p and a/t and dove to regain airspeed. I got down to 310 and TAT went from +29 to -2 climb to 33000 TAT to +6 aircraft struggling to stay up, dip back down to 31000. Then 10 minutes later I hear the engines come to life, look at the TAT and it is -13 Climb back up to 350 and now I am stable with a TAT of -13. This has to be something in the TAT processing no? TAT at 350 should be at least -20 with a SAT of somewhere between -40 and -60. Anyone else see this and anyone have any ideas? Sorry guys but instantaneous 30 degrees swings in TAT make the program unusable...Any help would be greatly appreciated,-Paul

Hi Paul,We would love to help, but without knowing what AS is showing it is very hard.Also, all AS is going to do is supply FS04 with the data for winds. After that it is under the control of FS04 and your plane. So if the data is accurate, then AS is not at fault here, because there is no TAT processing in AS.Also keep in mind that TAT depends on your speed; the faster your plane is going the higher the TAT. Does this happen with a default plane?Please let us know so we can help!Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Sales and Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_dev_team.jpg http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_proud_supporter.jpg

Hi Jim,Thanks for the quick response, and I do love the program by the way. I hope I did not come across the wrong way. Is there a log of the flight I can supply you? I am doing the KSEA-EHAM route as prepared by FSBuild using the winds aloft from ASV. I can send you the flightplan if you like. I have been going for 5 hours 45 minutes, a little under three to go. I would be more than hapy to provide you with anything I can...As for default planes, what are those lol.. Obviously this is not something I would notice in the GA so the only other planes I really fly are RFPV2 LVL-D767 and PMDG 747. I couldn't even tell you where to find the TAT in the RFP LOL but in the LVL-D and the PMDG 747, it is very noticable. (not to metion easy to monitor on the Eicas)I am doing .86 with the PMDg and .80 with the LVL-D so the -13 I understand, it is the swing to +29 that the engines can't keep up with :)Please tell me what to provide and I will get it back to you asap..Thanks again for the fast response Jim, again love the program, have my wind smoothing perfect in FSUIPC so this is the only thing that gets me...-PaulEEK, I just realised my signature was wrong lol, see belowNew systemSelf BuiltLiquid CooledAMD4000 San DiegoAsus A8NSLI-Premium2 gigs Corsair XMS Twin-X 2.5 3 3 6XFX 7800 GTX 515/1.4Dual Maxtor Raid-0SB Audigy 2 ZSDual Samsung 997 DF monitorsOld systemNow Air CooledAMD 64 3400+2 Gigs Kingston HyperX DDR4006800GTRaid-0 Dual SATA Maxtor 120 Gig Hd'sSamsung LCD Monitor

Hi Paul,When you notice a TAT swing, Alt/Tab to ASV and highlight the winds data and post it here. It will look like this:FL030: 097/08 (19.40) FL060: 097/16 (14.70) FL090: 099/09 (12.60)FL120: 267/11 (3.60) FL180: 251/19 (-9.40) FL240: 237/31 (-21.90)FL300: 244/61 (-34.70) FL340: 242/83 (-42.10) FL390: 245/91 (-49.90) Also see if a refresh is happening and what station is closest.The flightplan is not necessary. And no harm taken!!Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Sales and Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_dev_team.jpg http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_proud_supporter.jpg

Hi Jim,Will do,I can tell you it happened at two waypoints along this flight 6198N coordinates ~N6100.0/W9800.0 and again @ 6680N ~ N6600.0/W8000.0. Obviously now I am at 370 and Tat is -12 and of course it isn't going to happen for the rest of the flight LOL. I was planning on doing EHAM-KSEA tomorrow so hopefully I will hit the same behavior on the return trip and grab the info you need then,Thanks agin,-PaulSelf BuiltLiquid CooledAMD 64 3400+2 Gigs Kingston HyperX DDR4006800GTRaid-0 Dual SATA Maxtor 120 Gig Hd'sDual Samsung 997 DF monitors

I have noticed this happening in the Pacific and Atlantic areas where we are flying for extended times with no valid reporting stations. I use the LDS 767 and PMDG 747s and 737s. It is very important the TAT maintain stability when not receiving a valid station report. Can you ask if the code lets it drift or otherwise become invalid at higher flight levels during these times?Also, the SATs-OATs are still reading properly in the FMC data. We discussed this issue several months ago, but I have recently noticed it again while doing long overwater flights. Again, it doesn't occur for me when flying in areas where there are reporting stations. Hope this helps Jim.

It is the PMDG 747, is NOT the ASV 325. If you find my post you will se my testing weeks ago (maybe post are deleted) Try to fly with LEVEL-D It's so the best with all TAT changes etc...Regards,

Tommy, That still does Not address the underlying problem when there are no stations available for extended times. As I have already said, it doesn't happen when there are stations reporting good data. BTW I have been using Active Sky since was free and love the program!And it just goes to show how well the 747 flight dynamics are modeled.

Hi All,Fly a default plane and see what happens. If it is a ASV data problem, then it will still show up. If it is not a data problem, then you need to look at the planes. I do not own them so I cannot test.Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Sales and Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_dev_team.jpg http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_proud_supporter.jpg

Jim,No offense but default plane or not TAT readings of +29 when flying over the North Atlantic at FL350 has nothing to do with the plane. You are correct that how each plane reacts is the developers issues but the fact of the model is that the PMDG 747 accurately models flight behavior. No real world 747 would be able to sustain .86 with a TAT of +29 at that altitude. Furthermore, it makes no sense at all that diving to gain altitude will lower the TAT. I was not able to do my flight yesterday but I will be doing it today so hopefully the problem will re-surface and I can grab the info you asked for.Really though, a TAT of +29 at 350 over Iceland is a reporting problem, not a problem with the a/c and I absolutely see this with the LVL-D as well. I see it with any advanced plane, they all lose airspeed drastically when those TAT changes occur.-Paul

I cannot be agree with you mate Paul... I have had very serious problems reporting my feedback just starting my first five or seven flights with heavy cold fronts over FL300 and through South African, and trying to arrive to Hong Kong with my purchased 747-400 PMDG...All those five flights killed me and crashing without thrust control and reaching the STALL. Im remember you that I have any real Pilot License and also 13 years every day testing all the most complex and advanced add-ons for Flight Simulator... An my summary it's the best aircraft until now 767 LEVEL-D with difference, and ASV (325) + FSUipc last version it's so the best powerful weather engine tool.But I have been meanwhile banned from the PMDG temporal forum, and suddenly after the product were released I had seen a "Post It" talking about the 744 PMDG limitation designed Performances (you can read it there) and maybe you ask me about this hide? because it's the add-on is NOT modelated with the most advanced weather engine tools (until now of course -we will se with the upcoming upgrade in many weeks from these days, seems they are in holidays)My summary, I have checked all settings including FSUipc etc... and it's NOT the ASV (Im contacted with ASV Support team here too) and all those reports confirmed my were right all the way. Sincerely Im NOT happy with this 747 PMDG bird, because if those is NOT modelated why PMDG said it us 2 weeks later? strange or not?Fly LEVEL-D I recommend you! it's the most real add-on. I haven't got either problems with the TEMP or WindSmoothing.Regards,

Thomas,no offense, but I know exactly who you are and recognized your name right away. I was not surprised to see you in here blaming it on PMDG. I was also involved with some of your threads on the PMDG forum and all of the posts are still there, just not yours and rightfully so based on some of your comments.That is not here nor there, wind smoothing has nothing to do with this as I have no issues with wind smoothing with the correct FSUIPC settings. I also have NO ISSUES WITH PMDG OR LVL-D when flying through accurately reported weather stations. I have problems with BOTH planes when my TAT incorrectly jumps to temps such as +30 at fl 350 which only occurs at areas I am not getting frequent weather updates such as the North Atlantic. I have no problems doing a Cross-Country domestic flight when I get updates the entire way which proves it is not a problem with the models of the planes. They both fly fine when provided with the correct info.Personally I love both planes but I also have this issue with both planes. I have never tried to cross the pond in the PMDG 737 but I would bet the same thing would happen. This topic was discussed at length on the LVL-D forums when it was released as well, go search and please do not use this an another opportunity to blast PMDG as numerous real world 747 pilots and PS1 pilots have been all over there forums commending them for the level of realism they have achieved. If you are not a r/w 747 pilot, you have absolutely no basis for your claims and unless you have reverse engineered their code you certainly have no insight as to their programming...Sincerely-Paul SolkAND: straight from there site, no where do they imply it is a modelling shortcoming or anything they are changing:Some clarifications and information that hopefully you will find useful in getting acquainted with the performance of this aircraft. Firstly a few definitions/descriptions.(A) OPT ALT is defined purely on a nautical miles per gallon fuel consumed basis. OPTimum ALTitude is defined as the one that would allow the aircraft at normal attitude (normal in 744 means nothing above 3-3.5 degrees in cruise) to travel at maximum economy in LRC mode (long range cruise). Boeing tables show that for 4-engine operation the optimum altitude is independent of ISA deviation (another way to describe external temperature). Ofcourse the implicit provision is that you reach this altitude. Which brings to us to..(:( MAX ALT. Loosely speaking the MAXimum ALTitude is related to the g-load capability of the aircraft while banked. There are several definitions/group data entries for maximum altitude depending on the magnitude of allowed bank and g-capability. FMC's usually include data for the most favorable set of data (if I remember correctly, 1.2g and 35 degrees bank). Boeing tables indicate that MAX ALT does depend on ISA deviation. Furthermore, and that would perhaps make the picture more clear, MAX ALT is defined as an altitude where the aircraft can maintain a 100 fpm residual climb rate using full CLB power. As above the plane attitude is assumed to be within normal parameters. I mention the 100 fpm rate because I read below something about 500 fpm near MAX ALT so that you can compare.Both MAX and OPT ALT tables as supplied by the manufacturer are encoded in the FMC and the flight model is painfully tuned to match the numbers (attitude, power required, fuel consumption).Given the definitions above DO NOT expect this aircraft at ISA+20 (i.e. outside air temperature 20 degrees higher than normal) to be a star performer at high altitudes close to MAX ALT. Also DO NOT expect the aircraft to be able to recover from almost unusual attitudes (6+ degrees pitch) at high altitudes using CRZ power.All weather injection programmes suffer the FS problems of sudden weather injection. An aircraft being "hit" by 10-20 degrees higher temperature within 10 seconds (or 1 !!!) in real life would result in massive amounts of turbulence loss of control etc. The same applies for sudden wind shifts of 10+ knots (for some reason FS adjusts IAS when wind changes rather than ground speed). In real life that might take quite a few minutes. Nature's mechanism to generate turbulence is shear developed at the edges of two air streams with different core velocities and/or temperarure (i.e. density) variations in a force field (here gravity).Here are two hints :If you have a registered copy of FSUIPC set wind smoothing at around 1-2 knots shift per second. I have yet to figure out how to do the same thing reliably with temperature and pressure variations. Do not exceed this number because wind will shift for ever and ever.If you get hit by the FS heat wave (still summer right ?) or a sudden pressure bump or worse by a 30+ knots sudden tailwind check your thrust limit. If a deceleration trend continues for a long time switch the power limit to CLB or if worse comes to worse to CON (use the FMC THRUST LIM page). In general NEVER EVER let you attitude go off normal parameters because of shotcomings in the base weather sim platform. That big PFD screen there serves a purpose. The aircraft generates enormous induced drag following relatively small (1-2 degrees) change of pitch (strctly angle of attack). This is part of the aircraft "character". It is all due to that big nose at the front. Flow around it at anything above 3 degrees gets separated (hence the substantial amount of noise observed in the real cockpit). Therefore monitor your attitude.I intend at some point to show you with numbers ased on real data how the above info works prformance-wise (off for holidays for a few more days). Remember this aircraft is a real star performer for what it does when operated within normal parameters (there was no provision by the manufacturer sadly for mis-programmed weather generation).

Thank you Paul, I remember those threads also.....I won't go into my real world aviation experience because it was not civilian. I agree this is probably not the fault of the ASV or previous AS 4.x versions. It is however a problem with with a weather engine or reporting process. Again, I only experience this when the reporting data is not really valid. Africa may also be included here since I have not found many acurate reports from those stations when it gets dark. The same is true for some in the SEA area and India.Thomas I also agree with Paul about the LDS-767. I do use both and like Paul, I have experienced the same problems. I have also seen this while doing 'hops' across the North Atlantic in the PMDG 737s.All I am asking is for the ASV team take a look at how these temps are handled when the data is either missing or possibly spurious for whatever reason. Maybe a 'check-sum' of some kind to disallow sudden changes creeping in. I believe I first mentioned this happening with the previous AS4.x series as well. I just want ASV to be the absolute best weather product. In my opinion it already surpasses anything else, especially in support.

Hi Paul,Just so we are clear: If this happens again you are going to try to provide the raw ASV data that shows a significant positive jump in the SAT that lead to a significant jump in TAT. Also, the station, if possible so that we can attempt to duplicate this.Please for now leave the other issues alone. We want to help you have the best possible experience with ASV. If something is amiss with ASV, we will do what we can to make it right. Hope this helps,JimActiveSky Sales and Supporthttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_dev_team.jpg http://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_proud_supporter.jpg

Yep absolutely, Thanks Jim,I am doing KEWR-EHAM right now and so far it has been one of the most beautiful weather days yet. I actually wanted to take a video of the climbout through the clouds, it was amazing!!! All tat reportings have been between -19 and -25 and very stable. I checked the preflight temps and everything looked good and I have it set to 100% accuracy. If it doesn't happen on this flight (it doesn't happen on every flight just when ASV gets bad data I think) I will redo the KSEA-EHAM route as I seem to be able to replicate it everytime on that flight. See that I am willing to fly for hours just to get to the bottom of this LOL. :) Thanks again for the help and understood on the other things. Nuff said,-PaulIf it helps, maybe we need to get you some of these add-ons so you can see for yourself :)