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Moderation in AVSIM forums turned into sensorship. In the Phoenix section all postigs with any criticism just don't appear! No thread - no problem!This policy can not be tolerated!The institution of moderation is aimed at keeping discussions at the level of decency. In terms of wording - not in terms of opinions expressed!!!It reminds me of some Arab countries where any combination of words in Internet - that might be related even remotedely to sex - just gets wiped out!By some "moderator".Outstanding!NickMoscowRussia

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From time to time threads appear that just turn into a flame war or are personal attacks on people. Those of us who moderate the forums do so as we see fit. Some posts are edited, some are locked when they reach a point that is of no benefit and others deleted when they clearly have no place here.Its not always easy to keep a happy medium, but thats what we aim to achieve.http://www.avsim.com/vfr_center/avsim_sig.jpg

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Nick,I learned the hard way as well. You must understand that these are private forums(avsim), therefore there are rules you have to go by. If you don't like the rules, you can simply leave. Fausto (happycapt)

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>In the Phoenix section all postigs with any criticism just >don't appear! No thread - no problem! No crticism needed. Just a "difficult" question would do it.>>This policy can not be tolerated! You have no choice. It is their forum and they can do as please. But you have right not to go there or support them with your $.Michael J.http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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Hi Aidan,I think it's the inconsistent application of fluid guidelines, conditions and standards that bothers many readers. By 'fluid' I mean the standards change depending on who is posting.Nobody minds rules, and we happily abide by them when they are :(1) clear, and(2) applied equally to all.Merry Christmas,Steve

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While I also appreciate that this is a semantic difference, the PSS Support forum is moderated by PSS staff, not by AVSIM staff.Aidan's comments above apply to AVSIM's other forums, such as this particular one.--M

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>Hi Aidan, >>I think it's the inconsistent application of fluid >guidelines, conditions and standards that bothers many >readers. By 'fluid' I mean the standards change depending >on who is posting. >>Nobody minds rules, and we happily abide by them when they >are : >>(1) clear, and >>(2) applied equally to all. THAT

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No, Darell, I have read the pre-registration statement. We all have lawyers and we all know why and what for such statements exist.The point of my thread is that AVSIM forums (or their parts)' moderators do interpret those rules too far and too wide.IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US - LEAVE! Great logic! It's somewhere from pre-historic tribal customs: exclusion from the tribe was the severest punishment. Sure thing I can leave. I have a membership at flightsim.com and a dozen of other forums.But I like AVSIM. And I want to make it better, to make the rules more transparent.I should tell you what. I had a kind of fight with Compaq because of my custom-made Presario 8000 they shipped to me from the factory. I had been criticized Compaq - and then Compaq/HP - every day. For lousy customer service, for inadequate response, for poorly educated staff. NO THREAD WAS EDITED OR DELETED!But we are talking about flight simulation forum, ******* Christ! (Please note: the name just mentioned was not meant to give offense to anybody whose interpretation of the name might be different and/or whose religious beliefs might be hurt by using the name in the way it was used.)I am just wondering what would it be if the real things - war, piece, national interests, oil fields, drug traffic, politics - were to be discussed in this forum with such application of the term "moderation". WE ALL WOULD TURN NUMB, I suppose.Okay. PPS moderates Phoenix forum. But I can easily imagine what happens if any posting would touch any AVSIM affiliated persons and/or structures. No names.Let's look into vocabulary and read what the verb "moderate" means. Please do moderate - please do one let talk! Otherwise we all, step by step, get bogged down in "-isms" of different sorts.

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hello,This is the way I see it... "PSS support forum" since its a support forum PSS staff have the right to remove any thread started by a person thats not asking for help. If your gonna tell them how they can improve their products why not email them? AndrewKral :-wave

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I e-mailed them twice. But now they are going on vacation till 1/02.My Dashes keep missing runways!

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Could i just point out, your post was not deleted and is sat there waiting for you to reply so we can help you. That and the second post were not unqueued by the time you started this thread here quite simply because there was no one there to unqueue them at that point.Chris Filehttp://www.avsim.com/pss/phoenix.jpg

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Why not simply post to PSS Unleashed! - I think that forum is unmoderated. The support forum is moderated so that threads can remain pork-free and remain on-topic - free of flame wars and idiotic sentiments.J

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I wonder, is there a rule forbidding us to comment on the rules?If not, given the direction some of the IMHO excessive controls are in place, it will be here soon enough.It a real shame. Given that I was one of the first posters to these forums on the opening night AvSim started out and at that time wholeheartedly supported the "moderation" concept, I feel that it has been taken waaayyyyy too far and has killed the essence and the truely community feel of the place. I still pop in here once a day to see what is going on and sadly I don't see a whole lot. It is so antiseptic given that many of the characters that epitomised this great hobby have been given their marching orders.As Steve puts it, I too have a problem with the fluidity of the application of the rules, however the previous poster is right and this is their place and their rules so who are we to complain, we are but simple customers and contributors, thats all, not much...Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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>Why not simply post to PSS Unleashed! - I think that forum >is unmoderated. The support forum is moderated so that >threads can remain pork-free and remain on-topic - free of >flame wars and idiotic sentiments. >>J Because it doesn't exist anymore would be one good reason. :-)It was taken down a while back at least here at AVSIM and I'm pretty sure there isn't another one.

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>Moderation in AVSIM forums turned into sensorship. >>In the Phoenix section all postigs with any criticism just >don't appear! No thread - no problem! I generally stay out of the forum and let PSS handle the management of that forum unless they request me to step in. And that is the key part, while it is a forum hosted in the AVSIM forums, PSS staff handles it. But from what I've seen myself, it is not true that posts are deleted that have simply criticism. Now if you are disrespectful or just plain trolling for trouble in the forums, I wouldn't be surprised to see those posts never come to light. If trying to maintain control of their forums is what you equate to censorship, that is your business, but no one implied you have freedom of speech in the forums.>This policy can not be tolerated! Actually, if you want to post in there, it will be tolerated. That's just the way it is.>The institution of moderation is aimed at keeping >discussions at the level of decency. In terms of wording - >not in terms of opinions expressed!!! Like I said, I've seen criticisms in the forum that were kept at the level of decency. Go beyond that, and you may not see your post.>It reminds me of some Arab countries where any combination >of words in Internet - that might be related even remotedely >to sex - just gets wiped out! >By some "moderator". It's about time people get off this bandwagon comparing the forums to your favorite flavor of repression throughout the world. It gets old and shows many have totally lost perspective in my opinion.Now with that said, it has been pointed out to you that your post is displayed in the PSS forum. So I wonder if you will come back and rethink what you have said and state such or will you be like many that just come in and lambaste the AVSIM forums just because you can.

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It all depends on how you word it...If you remain civilised and don't resort to swearing and/or obvious falsehoods your posts will appear and will usually be answered as well.If you are unable to stay within the boundaries of civilised communication I think you'll find your statements removed anywhere else as well (except from those places that exist purely for such uncivilised communication).And if you can't tollerate people not tollerating uncivilised communication, that's your problem and not theirs.Moderation CAN be used to suppress certain opinions, for example undecent opinions.For example, if you have a problem with a specific problem you could post about it in at least 2 ways:1) "Your product sucks. It's the worst piece of crap I've ever seen. I'm going to make sure noone ever buys from you ever again!!!!!"2) "I've encountered some problems with your product X. . Could you fix them or help me fix them?"Post #1 will warrant deletion, post #2 will be allowed to stand. Yet both posts stem from the same opinion that something is wrong with the product.Difference is that post #1 doesn't even mention the specific problem AND is completely negative and meant to hurt while post #2 is an appeal for help mentioning the issues on which help is needed.Post #1 is completely useless except maybe as a means to vent frustrations. Post #2 helps the support people determine what the problem is so they can try to help the poster.

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Scott,First of all it should be said that the model you've made is great, and I wrote about it. I had sent e-mail to PSS support on 12/19 and I didn't get any response.I went though all topics about ILS capture and glidescope - and didn't find the answer.I printed out and re-read all Dash manuals for a dozen of times.I posted my own thread and was waiting its appearence.So to learn to fly this cute Dash faster was the only impetus of the whole talk.______________________________________________________________________I don't think that any of my words could be interpreted as disrespectful toward AVSIM staff ot PSS staff.The only shadow of criticism was due to the fact that since the release of the model the issue of ILS capture and glidescope, arisen by many buyers of your product, was not addressed adequately. From my point of view.______________________________________________________________________As to Freedom of Speech.I can't agree with the AVSIM statement - "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN A PRIVATELY OWNED AND OPERATED FORUM".A global Web-site forum - that affiliated dozens of other flightsim projects - can not work as a private club of the Victorian epoch.By definition a Web-site, publicly or privately owned, is a mass media. And as a such it should live with all burdens of Freedom of Speech."The Times" or "Washington Post" are privately owened and operated busineses as well. But what would it be if they print on every issue:"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN A PRIVATELY OWNED AND OPERATED NEWSPAPER"??!![b/]______________________________________________________________________It doesn't make sense to go on with this discussion. So I withdraw.______________________________________________________________________Staying an AVSIM forum member,NickMoscowRussia

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I am fed up of this bull!!I for one would not miss you if you left because your right tp "freedom of speech" (which does not exist on a forum on the internet) is affected by the rules of this forum.If you came into my house and didn't want to abide by my rules I would tell you to get the ********** out of my house. The fact that you can do something in your house does not mean you can come into my house and do the same thing if it is against my rules. Plain and simple. No grey (gray for the pedantic) areas.Remember when you were in school and broke the rules? Freedom of speech does not count.Remember if you break the law. Freedom of speech does not count.The fact that rules are posted here and they are flagrantly disregarded (a look at the screenshots forum is a good example - how many posts contain more than 5 pictures, pictures that don't conform to the size etc) shows the mentality and the level of maturity of a lot of the users.Either live with the rules and STFU, or leave.Flame away I wont be reading this thread anymore.PANMAN

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>>"The Times" or "Washington Post" are privately owened and >operated busineses as well. But what would it be if they >print on every issue: >>"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN A PRIVATELY >OWNED AND OPERATED NEWSPAPER"??!![b/] I can tell you. If all the massmedia would insist on the fact that there is no such thing as freedom of speech in a privately owned and operated newspaper/website/radio/TV-station etc. THEN THERE WOULD BE NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH AT ALL. Doesn

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this is just like the flightsim.com forum and Mr Simon Evans revisited. And to think I moved here to get away from that!! Looks like a bad move on my part.David

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Hmmm.......I have $50 riding on how long this thread will take to get locked. Avsim moderators, please dont make me lose my money.....LOL.Lagaz.

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Nick I just checked all of my e-mail for Friday and we did receive your e-mail I did receive your e-mail and I responded to you asking for you to tell what airports the problem was occuring and telling you that the easiest way to purchase liveries was to go to Sales - Browse - New Since then I have heard nothing from you. Also John Helsby from our support staff wrote you with several suggestions and to date you have not responded to any of the 4 e-maisl he sent you. Me thinks the problem is not censorship but rather the failure on your part to read your e-mails and respond.Robert KirklandPSS SUPPORTsupport@phoenix-simulation.co.ukhttp://www.avsim.com/pss/phoenix.jpg

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I Had stated a few days ago that PSS will not post in this forum but thanks to the LIES in this particular thread I feel once again I am Forced to defend our position and set the record straight. Especially in the case of Mr pylon101QUOTE from PSS FORUMPSS seems to ignore the issue of poorly fuctioning APP.This is a payware, and the issue must be addressed effectively and immediately.I am just wondering how much time it is going to take to solve the issue?!Even though we considered this a rather uninformed and unhelpful statementand as well as the quite Impolite demands, PSS Still allowed your comments to be posted because underneath the somewhat abusive nature it appeared there might be a genuine problem.. You were Answered WITHIN TWO MINUTES !!!We we had to ask for more information because you didnt even mention the product you had the problem with , then you failed to respond for a whole day. What the H### do you want Sir ?

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