hereread this Noel http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008...e-envelope.aspxthat should tell you HOW and WHY it is not possible to GAUGE performance... the engine is going to skip things for priority and realistic ability. It does that with traffic, AG, weather, flight dynamics, terrain calls.. you name it. The title does not have the hardware available to it to render everything in real time and with playable levels due to its design and its nature, .. therefore trying to place a linear perf value into a title that is trying to grind MORE and MORE no matter how high the slider, and you cant gauge anything without the DATA of what was skipped in that render test and at what speed each element made it to the screen and was renderedits a simple as that

>Look at AMD in the memory bandwidth test. this is where good>techs make BAD MISTAKES they assume because AMD memory>bandwidth is higher/CAS lower and Intels bandwidth is lower>with higher CAS, and, Intel runs FSX better than AMD.. that>the memory speed and CAS latency makes no difference... BULLHmm, I have read of some other issues regarding this issue of why Intel outperforms AMD, and it had much more to do with pipelines in the CPU itself, the caches I guess, were why this was so. It didn't seem to be the memory subsystem per se. But, as you can tell, I don't know this subject matter in depth.>Its the 3L LANTENCY's that make the difference and I am>tickling that northbridge giving me TWICE the ability of those>other systems even though my bandwith numbers are LOWER than>AMD. My stoplight is only 'red' 1/2 the time. The AMD is>running CAS4 too which increases that benchmark but that>system is not tuned to take full advantage of the bandwidth so>it goes to waste sitting there at the light waiting while my>lanes are moving traffic, and a LOT of it.>>Your main problem is you are messing around with cheaper low>CAS ability memory product and are restricted to DDR2>bandwidth. If you really want to see a difference you not only>need to get the 3L

Right now Noel, the memory companies are not really focusing on DDR2 high performance as much as they did in the past because DDR3 is right around the cornerUnfortunately more than 2GB has always been a bugger to get low latency stable but it is my understanding with DDR3 toward Q4 of this year there are plans to change that since the frequencies are there and unrestricted, and, the chipsets will also be undergoing a change.If you are satisfied with what you have and it is running smooth Noel, I don

>If you are satisfied with what you have and it is running>smooth Noel, I don

OK, I can't resist. Ordered this kit:OCZ Flex II 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1150 (PC2 9200) It's good for 4GB (2 kits won't fly because of the heat sink assembly. And as it turns out they can be run on air, of which my air system is quite potent if I needed it to be, since it's . . . a 9K BTU air conditioner blowing over the whole guts at point blank range. I sorta need it when my QX is in the 4.2Ghz+ range. I can live with 4GB. If for nothing else it will satisfy my curiosity as to whether or not there is appreciable performance differences. The kit was $175. Nick, where would you start with these modules in terms of FSB for starters? I'm confused about where to start with FSB. I am comfortable experimenting with FSB Strap, timings, etc but still puzzled about where a good place to be with the FSB. With the OCZ 8000 I tried I could go to 440 FSB and that was it. Is the general rule to run the FSB as fast as it will go? I have an unlocked multiplier . . .

>OK, I can't resist. Ordered this kit:>>OCZ Flex II 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1150 (PC2>9200) I took a closer look, and there is no way the HS will fit with the retail cooler on my QX in DIMM slot A1. So, cancelled the order we did. Will keep looking for something as impressive to come along in 2GB sticks, as that is def my minimum . . .

Thats my point NoelYou want 4GB and right now the only memory that comes close in that for 'zone' ability is DDR3 1600 modules @ CAS7. Even those are high but can be clocked down. Simply on the basis that you want to run 4GB+ I recommend you stand down on the purchases and wait till Q4 when you will get what you are looking for.If you want to play, the cheapest I have seen since last years Crucial is the 2x1GB Patriot modules however I doubt they will do 1T. The 1T gorrila chips are just not on the market any more. Memory companies are going to make money on their cheaper quality DDR2 bin runs now that require fancy heat sink techniques (like OCZ) and let them run out.

>>>Thats my point Noel>>You want 4GB and right now the only memory that comes close in>that for 'zone' ability is DDR3 1600 modules @ CAS7. Even>those are high but can be clocked down. I was thinking the new Flex 2's might have been ok, and I thought that was what you were saying. I'll follow your rec and hold off until it's time to swap out mainboard and memory, then hopefully there will be some nice options for me.Thanks alot Nick.

By the time you are ready to move the the higher bandwidth memory they will have developed to the point where CAS is in line with the performance curves in 4GB solutions. At that point you have the product to chose from, and, now you have the information necessary to make the right choices. Save the charts I posted for CALWI and tRD. Your next purchase will have the MCH VOLTAGE access as well so you will be in a much better position to plan, purchase and set up easily for max performance.and yes, the OCZ Flex series would probably do the job and you do not have to use the water cooler ports with them however they were designed to allow that type of heat transfer for a reason. I don

Nick,I reread all these posts here again then did some research on memory. I plan on putting the memory in an ASUS P5K with a Q6600 and hopefully overclocking to 3.6 mhz. I only looked at Newegg because they have easy to use filters for searching. The best I came up with were these DDR2-1200 Patriot sticks @ 5-5-5-12 & 2.3V that you also recommended to Noel: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820220241and these DDR2-800 OCZ sticks @ 3-4-4-15 and 2.3V:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820227271It looks like the DDR2-800 would give me a CAS latency of 7.5 ns where as DDR2-1200 gives me a CAS latency of about 8.2 from your chart above. According to the tech repository link you provided, the one with the higher memory speed divided by CAS clock and voltage ( UMPR#) is the way to go. 800/3/2.3=116 and 1200/5/2.3=104, so according to that article, the DDR2-800 is the way to go.Also two customers said they got the ddr2-800 running at cas3 and 1t. The fact that 2 gb is currently $76 is not too bad either.So how does one decide which set will give you more tuning flexibility? What are your thoughts on these two choices?I focused in on the the ASUS P5k because you said it had the best overclocking bios of all the manufacturers. From ASUS's website it seems like all variations of this board have the same bios. Based on that and the fact that I don't need wifi, dual lan ports, etc. is the base P5k sufficient for stable overclocking or does the deluxe or "e" versions offer anything of value in this area? I went to the ASUS website to try and decide between all the versions, but all I found was what appeared to be a bunch of BS from the sales and marketing department.Noel and I aren't going to let this thread die. :) Thanks for the continuing education course on memory optimization,Ted

>and yes, the OCZ Flex series would probably do the job and you>do not have to use the water cooler ports with them however>they were designed to allow that type of heat transfer for a>reason. I have effective cooling in place, and sort of (goes to 66-67C without it turned on under load conditions at 4.0GHz or higher) need to use it if I o'c my CPU to 4.0 or higher. The cooling I use is effective for the entire rig, GPU, memory, CPU, etc. It works for all systems, since it is installed thru my PC room wall. It produces some low pitched white noise, but it is never a bother for me since I often use headphones anyway, and even without, it's ok fine. Plus, it was very inexpensive ($159 or so) and serves a dual purpose. I'm guessing my cooling solution is more effective than water cooling anyway, plus the whole box stays cool. And, when I am doing piano and other digital audio I simply go back to stock CPU speeds and the machine is very quiet. Works. In fact, here it is:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187818.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187819.jpgThe flex hoses blow at point blank range (3 speed fan, which I set at low) at the CPU HSF, the memory and northbridge and GPU. My drives run nicely just from being connected to the aluminum case. I set this SHARP A/C unit at about 68 or so, and the thing gets downright chilly. Since the AC unit is as small as it is, it doesn't hardly affect my room temp. I can also use the fan only settings with 3 speed fan, which is fine until I start overclocking. I'm sure it would be fine even without AC, but it's nice to run 4.3GHz and keep my CPU in the low to mid 50's under maximum stress. The other components respond similarly.The problem is, the dang Flex cooler is so big I don't think I could get one into the first slot without changing my CPU fan, which is plenty fine. I'll take another look and see if perhaps I misjudged the situation.>DDR3 bandwidths get rid of the need for the insane cooling>solutions in DDR2 to accomplish the same job. Thats why I>think it would be money better spent later. for me it was>money better spent sooner because I no longer had to extreme>cool to get the same or better result.That sounds wise Nick. I'll keep a look out though as again, I do have the cooling and use it anyway, so if something comes along that looks at least as good as the OCZ in a 4gb kit, I might go for it. If I had a buyer for my board and memory I'd probably just go for it and go to an X48 board and DDR3, but as you say, the end of the year might be better.