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Noel

FS2002 and the Radeon 9700Pro

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I've searched the forum but couldn't find an answer so forgive me if this has been covered...I've just replaced (upgraded?) my Geforce 3 with the 9700Pro.Although the AA and anisotropic filtering is great why does the textures on building at airports take so long to appear (up to 20seconds at Manchester, UK for instance - which is like, forever!)Also even with no AA and anis. I've had to turn the graphics detail down to get the same FR as the Geforce.I've tried:1. changing AGP aperture in the BIOS with no difference2. made sure that in dxdiag AGP texture acceleration is enabled (after card install this was set to disabled by default - how is one supposed to know that!!!)2. Change FS2002 display options from bilinear to trilinear which gave (surprisingly) a big improvementBut it's still a problemSystemP4 1.8Ghz512Mb ramIntel 850GB moboCrucial Radeon 9700Pro

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You might want to try uninstalling any trace of nVidia software. Then try the latest ATI drivers from here: http://www.guru3d.com. Don't dismiss the BETA's .. they're usually good.

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>You might want to try uninstalling any trace of nVidia >software. Then try the latest ATI drivers from here: >http://www.guru3d.com. Don't dismiss the BETA's .. they're >usually good. Thanks Rob, but not the problem. I use Detonator Destroyer to remove all Nvidia drivers and I'm using the ATI Catylist 3.1 drivers (the lates I think)

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Have you tried backing up your fs2002.cfg file and then removing it? Sometimes that will fix graphics problems.

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There is really only one fix: Format and reinstall your operating system, only way to stop such issues.

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>There is really only one fix: Format and reinstall your >operating system, only way to stop such issues. Hey John that's a bit extreme. No wonder consoles are so popular :)BTW I've discovered an easier way, RR (return/refund)I'll go back to my trusty GeForce3Okay so AA is out the window but better than blocky non-textured buildings and a 20 second wait to get textures back on my 3D cockpit.

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I'm sure there was something wrong in your setup.The Radeon 9700-pro works perfect here with FS2002, with AA and Aniso. turned on, which has almost no impact on the performance.-Michael

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>I'm sure there was something wrong in your setup. >The Radeon 9700-pro works perfect here with FS2002, with AA >and Aniso. turned on, which has almost no impact on the >performance. >>-Michael Same here. There is something wrong with either you setup or possibly a defective card?

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Actually, I believe the guys at ATI recommended a format and re-install of your OS on their forums.:(This is one of the reasons I'm skeptical of the 9700 Pro.Shane

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Thats really not necessary to reinstall the OS.I replaced my geForce2 with the 9700-pro, and i had no problems at all, works like a charm (Win XP).Cheers,Michael

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________________________________________________________This is one of the reasons I'm skeptical of the 9700 Pro________________________________________________________I would think that would be a reason to be skeptical of Nvidia. After all, it's their unwillingness to enable their users an easy uninstall routine that causes many of the problems. Why Nvidia decides to leave some of their driver garbage on your harddrive even after a complete uninstall is of concern to me. ATI driver uninstall routines work. That's why when folks go from ATI to Nvidia, they usually have no problems. Going from Nvidia to ATI can cause grief because that's what Nvidia wants. I'm convinced of that. IMHO, of course!

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"After all, it's their unwillingness to enable their users an easy uninstall routine that causes many of the problems. Why Nvidia decides to leave some of their driver garbage on your harddrive even after a complete uninstall is of concern to me."Nvidia has the EASIEST uninstall process I have ever seen! It only takes about 2 min.If you use XP or Win2000 it is so simple you could probably do it blindfolded. Not ALL Nvidia drivers create an Nvidia folder. Those that do...no big deal. After you restart, and before you install the new ones, just delete the folder.If you are still worried about left ove files, download Regcleaner, and delete all the files with Nvidia in their name. Simple!! :) :)Shane

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I don't think you understood what I said. Uninstalling is simple on any video driver unless that uninstall doesn't remove all the files. Nvidia's uninstall routine doesn't remove all the files. Hence, the reason third parties have developed work arounds like Det Destroyer, etc. For the simple reason that Nvidia refuses to do it right in the first place. Probably because of limitations imposed on their tech department by their "dirty tricks department". Again, IMHO.

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Actually, with Win2000 and (XP I believe), you only have to use the Add/Remove function of Windows.And all the files are gone.I have NEVER had any left over files using Win2000.Of course I would expect to have problems if I was using crap software like WinME or Win98. Hence the reason to have Det. Destroyer. Det. Destroyer was made for these two operating systems. I believe your "hate" for Nvidia is misguided. It isn't the drivers that have an issue, it is the OS.If it was the drivers, you would have the same issue in Win2000 Pro and XP, and you do not.Shane

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No "hate" for Nvidia. Just suspicious! Two of my three computers are equipped with Nvidia Cards. Nice cards. My gaming machine has an ATI. Two of my three computers are equipped with XP. The other has Win98 standard and the accessories I call "illegal operation" and "fatal exception" modes. :-lol

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>No "hate" for Nvidia. Just suspicious! Two of my three >computers are equipped with Nvidia Cards. Nice cards. My >gaming machine has an ATI. Two of my three computers are >equipped with XP. The other has Win98 standard and the >accessories I call "illegal operation" and "fatal exception" >modes. :-lol LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!All of us who have used Win98 in the past know those modes well!!!VERY WELL!!:-lolShane

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I've only had this card a few days but, with only one exception, all games fail graphically in some way or another. I think there are still serious isuse with the ATI drivers.I found a great improvement after turning off anisostropic, but the level of graphics I can have is LESS than my GeForce 3 before problems occur. Other problem games are:1. Grand Prix Legends stuttering replays and corrupted mips2. Medal of Honour fails to run and actually crashes the system3. Unreal2 was not improved whatsoeverWhen I upgraded from my 3DFx Voodoo 5500 to the GeForce 3 it was quite painless. This is what one should expect. Not everyone is technically minded enough to problem-solve like this. I'm a network manager and even I've found this card really difficult. Surely ATI do themselves no PR favours by releasing a new adapter (months ago) and still haven't got it right.I don't think there is basically anything wrong with the card itself (3D Mark 2003 of 4370 on a P4-1.8Ghz system) just a bad set of drivers.I've read so much about this now on the internet that anyone who says they don't have issues with this card must be lying!Maybe we should charge ATI for our Beta Testing time :)One totally frustrated owner

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I hear the same reports from others Alanrco.....But when I tell people they either, A: Don't believe me or B: Tell me I'm wrong.*sigh*Shane

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Hi alanrco, I hear your frustration. I have a very similiar setup to yours. I have very little problems with it. I have a Radeon 9500PRO. I play Grand Prix Legends and Medal of Honor also. All play very well on my system. Some people have complained some about the Cat3.1 drivers. Try the Cat3.0 drivers. Try this little program from Driverheaven (http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/). I have used it to remove ATI drivers and it works very well. Are you totally against a format of your harddrive and reinstall of everything? Short of their actually being something wrong with your video card, everything should work great. I am very happy with my 9500PRO. Hope this may help a bit.There is also quiute abit of info over at this link(http://rage3d.com/board/index.php?s=).Ron

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I have the card and no problems. Try this from the Rage3d forums:shashaRadeonRegistered: Mar 2002Location: Posts: 254 Foolproof Uninstall/install method Posted here form the AIW forum by popular request. It is a few months old, but still works well.This is geared towards the AIW versions, but if you disregard all the WDM and MMC references it is aplicable to all Radeons.The biggest problems I have heard about ATI drivers is that they do not always uninstall/update very well so I have my own foolproof method to make sure that everything goes as planned. The latest issue is that the WDM drivers on the ATI site are the same version number, but are in fact different (proven by the fact they are a different size and that the previous one does not work) Edit: They did in fact release "new" drivers though they are the same as a few days ago. The next issue is that the drivers need to installed in a specific order and even if you are prompted to reboot, you are not supposed to in all case (taken from the ATI install notes). I have upgraded drivers about 15-20 times with my card in the last 4 months without a hitch, so I know that it can be done. This is geared towards WinXP, but the principles are the same in all Windows OS's.Here is my 100% foolproof, completely anal, over the top method for a completely clean ATI driver/MMC install. This the closest I can get to a clean install of ATI drivers/SW that I have figured out short of a reformat. UPDATE It has been brought to my attention that you may need to disable Windows File Protection (WFP) or do the file deletions in the system32 folder while in safe mode depending on your system configuration. To disable WFP, I use X-Setup by X-teq (free very powerful system tweaker) and you should have no problems deleting any file. Otherwise SafeMode should work just fine. Items you will need before you start:Download all of the necessary drivers from hereDownload MMC 7.6noDVD.exe here if you don't already have it. You need it even if you are installing MMC7.7 (it's an ugrade patch).Download and install Regcleaner (the best registry tool out there) from here.System purging procedure:Uninstall all ATI SW, drivers, hydravision, MMC, remote SW, whatever because it makes it easier to clean up your system and it won't cause problems when restarting. Don't reboot until everything is uninstalled.Delete the following directories:C:ATIC:Program FilesATI MultimediaC:Program FilesATI TechnologyC:Program FilesCommon FilesRaviscent Sharednote: you may not have all of these depending on your card type, just delete the ones you haveClean out the C:WindowsTemp directory. There is a chance there are some driver files in there as well.Go to the C:Windowssystem32 directory, make sure you are in detail view and right click on the header (where name, file type, date modified...is) and select more and check the box for Company. Then double click on the Company header and then delete all of the ATI files in there. Do the same for the C:Windowssystem32drivers directory.Go to the C:Windowsinf directory and delete any file that starts with ATI (open the inf files in notepad). Then go down to each file named oemxx.inf and open it, delete any that refer to ATI. Make sure that you delete the corresponding .pnf file as well.Run Regcleaner. Delete any ATI entries.Empty the Recycle Bin.Unplug your internet connection or disable it. (Mainly for WinXP) If you don't Windows will try to download a driver for you and install it.RebootDriver/SW installAll Radeon cards need the Catalyst drivers and the Control Panel. AIW cards will need the WDM drivers and the MMC SW. Make sure that you get all of them and some of them need the older versions, as they are upgrades (MMC SW).Install the WDM drivers. Do not reboot.Install the Display drives (Catalyst). Do not reboot.Install the Control Panel. Reboot.On startup Windows will install all of your HW went it boots and it will take a few minutes. Relax, you are almost done. Install MMC-7-6-noDVD.exe. Reboot.Install MMC-7-6 DVD.exe. RebootRun the MMC-7.7.0.1 (latest version) update. Reboot.Like I said, I have done this more than a few times and it always works for me. I wouldn't have spent all of the time formatting this message if I didn't believe in it. __________________WinXP Pro MSI K7T266 Pro2RU AMD XP2000 512M PC2100 DDR ATI AIW Radeon 8500DV Catalyst 2.2, MMC 7.7.0.1Promise FT100 at RAID0 (2 WD 40G) 60G WD System drive Turtle Beach Santa Cruz 3Com NIC Ricoh 9120a combo DVD/CD burnerMy 3D Mark2001SE scoresMy PCMark 2002 scores My system picsLast edited by shasha on 01-20-2003 at 03:36 PM

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i only can say that the Radeon 9700-pro works without any problems here.I had the geForce2 GTS2-pro before, i just uninstalled the drivers, put the new Radeon in, installed the Catalyst drivers, and it worked without ANY problems!Maybe your problems are motherboard related. I saw some issues with motherboards with the Radeon at www.rage3d.com .I have the ASUS A7N8X-deluxe board with WinXP, and as i said, i have no problems AT ALL. I never regreted that i bought this card, it performs sooo good!Cheers,Michael

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^^That's why I like Nvidia drivers.That is WAY to much to do just to install drivers.Shane

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>2. made sure that in dxdiag AGP texture acceleration is enabled (after card install this was set to disabled by default - how is one supposed to know that!!!)http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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You guys make everything seem SOOOooo difficult... why not just buy a whole new computer? Saw a nice one on an info-mercial, last night! lol

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