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Guest Ted_Thompson

Long Range Flight Planning

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Maybe this would be better off being asked "in real life" but since I'm trying to do this in FS2004, I thought I'd ask here.Goal - To make an island hopping flight from LA to Subic Bay (Phillipines), the aircraft is an HU-16 Albatross.I've made the leg from LA to Maui and from Maui to Midway Atoll, but after landing there and seeing an odd undocumated triangle of runways right next to the one I landed on I started to investigate.A few searches later I found out that the runways were used during WWII, when the other one (that I landed on) didn't exist. I also found out that Midway is only in limited operation and mostly a wildlife reserve now...So - How does one go about planning a long range trip such as this w/ refueling stops and such? And were someone really doing what I'm "virtually" attempting, would they use Midway? Or is there something else? (Actually, FS says Midway only has Jet fuel, so it wasn't a good choice anyway, although a stop at the fuel pumps did fill my tanks up)

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Call Jeppsen.They have a department which specializes in helping pilots make overseas flights to places they have never been - coordinating with strange fuel vendors, customs officials. At many airport a 'handler' must be hired to walk you through the local hoops.They will also have information on which airports can be opened on special occasions and which cannot.They are expensive. The company I work for uses them everytime one of our jets leaves the US for China, Australia, Dubai, Europe, Russia, etc.However, no matter what the cost - it's much cheaper than an impounded aircraft - or having to ship one back surface due to problems.There are other people in the business.Some people have had to have Avgas shipped into islands for their flights - but it's getting harder and harder to make a RTW flight in a piston aircraft, or flight to distant out of the way locations. A lot of great information on this site - http://www.earthrounders.com/http://www.earthrounders.com/

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I think since the NW Hawaiian Islands became a refuge, trying to use either Midway or French Frigate Shoals is very hard. Also, I think Johnston Atoll is pretty much off limits. Thus, going via the Central Pacific is pretty tough. I see a guy is doing a solo this week, and he is going via the Aleutians.scott s..

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According to what I was finding, Johnston Atoll is closed (even when it was open they were doing chemical weapon demo there so if you touched down you were going to be kept at gun point as I understand it), and I think French Frigate Shoals is closed too.Seems Midway is the only one open, and only at odd times and via prearrangement due to the sea birds on the island.

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This dymaxion projection gives one a better understanding of where one is going. The red line indicates the actual shortest route between KLAX and RPLB. One can see there are any number of landbased fueling places, including Anchorage. Distance is 7295 miles (11740 km) (6339 nautical miles). Most of these airline flights are non-stop.Using FS9's FlightPlanner/HA Airways, it correctly plotted this course and closely replicating the R597 Oceanic Track into Manila. Try it.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/174356.jpgP.S. Thanks to Buckminster Fuller for saving us from the madness of Gerardus Mercator.

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!!! How'd you do that? That's what I needed! When I saw that course running the pacific rim I thought it was a matter of simply avoiding the water (as I recall it comes up when you do VOR to VOR)In the meantime, I headed to Marshall Is. (PKMJ) Which is where I should have gone to begin with AVGAS and within range of Maui for an HU-16 - chalk it up to sight seeing, since I'll probably never see Midway in person!:D

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>!!! How'd you do that? That's what I needed! When I saw>that course running the pacific rim I thought it was a matter>of simply avoiding the water (as I recall it comes up when you>do VOR to VOR)>>In the meantime, I headed to Marshall Is. (PKMJ) Which is>where I should have gone to begin with AVGAS and within range>of Maui for an HU-16 - chalk it up to sight seeing, since I'll>probably never see Midway in person!>>:D>>Actually, it comes up when you enter GPS direct routing. This is the best way to plan long range flights in the standard FS flight planner. You can always 'drag' the line to the waypoints/airports that you wish to visit or fly over.John M

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I just checked, and while GPS does make a high arch over the pacific it's quite a bit south of the route shown here.When I did low altitude airways it did come VERY close to that plot, but also came up with 32,000ft! An Albatross can't go over 21,000.Altitude aside, I'm gathering that what I should do is make a GPS plot, then look for a suitable airfield along that plot at my range. Then start over using that field. Do this over and over until I reach my destination and I'll have each leg of the journey. Is that correct? It doesn't seem that there's anyway to put refueling stops into one long contiguous flight plan...Is that a limitation of FS9 or is that how it's done in real life?

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I believe that if you plot one long continuous GPS course in FS that you can deviate and land along the way without having to re-do your planning, as long as you are not in contact with ATC. FS ATC can/will cancel your flight plan if you deviate too far from the planned course. Not 100% sure about this though.In real life one would plan a flight like this in "legs", ie.- point A to point B,point B to point C,etc. If filing with ATC we would file a new flight plan at every stop along the way. If we were in a real hurry we could file the next leg while we were still in the air approaching our stop , however I like having at least a cup of coffee and 'relieve' myself while the aircraft is refueled. So I'll use this time to file my next leg.John M

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"How'd you do that?"Original post stated: "Using FS9's FlightPlanner/HA Airways, it correctly plotted this course"HA= High Altitudehttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/174381.jpgThis collage was created in Infanview . . . time permitting, I could do a correct represention using PhotoShop :-)P.S. And I STILL read posts that FS9's FlightPlanner is no good!P.P.S. And FSX's f/p is EVEN better.

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The only complaint with FS F/P is the trans-atlantic routes, but then again using GPS direct is the way to go there anyway. I've even noticed that FS F/P will create different routes between the same locations, ( KIAD D TNCA, Washington Dulles to Aruba, is one such route). Usually it will plan for you to fly down to KILM, then follow the coast line to the Bahamas before turning east toward Hispaniola and south to Aruba. At other times it wiil take you toward KORD, then out over the Atlantic to pick up the airway south. Either route is pretty close to what's used in real life. It's almost like the F/P is taking into consideration the time of year and amount of traffic flow on the airways.John MThat's KORF, Norfolk Va. not KORD

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For pretty much the ultimate in long range flight planning in FS:http://users.adelphia.net/~mattsmith19/RTW/resources.htmThe next race is only 129 days away !!!Real world - Call JeppsenFS - GPS direct route - move the flight path to fuel stop airports.And they never held me a gunpoint at Johnston or Kwajalein. Of course being USN and landing in an EC-121 did make me welcome. Same with Midway and Wake.I need to get my cousin to tell you about trying to find Wake with just a Tacan in a group of F-4's crossing the pond in 1968. He still says that was scarier that the two times he ejected.

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>For pretty much the ultimate in long range flight planning in>FS:>>http://users.adelphia.net/~mattsmith19/RTW/resources.htm>>The next race is only 129 days away !!!>>Real world - Call Jeppsen>>FS - GPS direct route - move the flight path to fuel stop>airports.>>And they never held me a gunpoint at Johnston or Kwajalein. Of>course being USN and landing in an EC-121 did make me welcome.>Same with Midway and Wake.>>I need to get my cousin to tell you about trying to find Wake>with just a Tacan in a group of F-4's crossing the pond in>1968. He still says that was scarier that the two times he>ejected.I haven't seen Wake, but seeing Midway and Marshall I have to say I was really STRUCK by what it would take with no GPS to find these little specks of land in the ocean!! Even with ADF you've got to get close. People wonder what happened to Earhart?? I don't! Not anymore... One wrong move, miscalculation, or failure and it's like being in a pitch black room. Of course I guess they did use sexants back then, didn't they?Anywho...There's a website out there somewhere that details Johnston Atoll and has pics then and pics as of (I think) 2004 - shows the runway with Xs on it and all the buildings gone at least in the residence area. It said that commercial flights landing there were typically under armed guard when on the ground and no one was allowed off.It also said they did chemical weapons disposal there... True? I dunno...As to "How to Plan" I think I've got it at this point - thanks to all who've chimed in. Right now I'm parked at Guam International - I think once I hit Subic Bay, I'll take the route I've been shown here to get back to LAX again... Should be some nice scenery.

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Hi WiiThat is a fascinating projection you have found there. I see Buckminster Fuller was into more than just carbon isomers.Can I ask where / what tool you used to generate that projection. I`m always fascinated my maps and you`re comment re Mercator is v pertinent when looking at a Polar projection..CheersJames

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