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bucifan

Imaginesim Kiad

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Just noticed on a flight into KIAD, that there is no ILS for 1C/19C, which used to be 1L/19R. Was it dropped, or is this an error by Imaginesim?Rick

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Just noticed on a flight into KIAD, that there is no ILS for 1C/19C, which used to be 1L/19R. Was it dropped, or is this an error by Imaginesim?Rick
I don't own that particular scenery so I'm not sure how the authors have chosen to work with the runway renumbering/redesignation at KIAD. You can read this post here to see all the issues involved with airports with new/changed runways: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=232799Is there any documentation in the product as to the design philosophy or tradeoffs that the authors note?-- Outer Marker

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Just noticed on a flight into KIAD, that there is no ILS for 1C/19C, which used to be 1L/19R. Was it dropped, or is this an error by Imaginesim?Rick
I just checked the AFCAD that you have to download from ImagineSim web site and 1C/19C ILS is working just fine on 111.30 freq.They do need to update the AFCAD to the correct ILS freq for the new 1L/19R. They have 110.70 and it should be 110.75

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I just checked the AFCAD that you have to download from ImagineSim web site and 1C/19C ILS is working just fine on 111.30 freq.They do need to update the AFCAD to the correct ILS freq for the new 1L/19R. They have 110.70 and it should be 110.75
Jim,The AFCAD I got was from their site. What I am seeing is that under the Navaids list, the navaids are there. But if you check the runways, there is no ILS identifier listed for 1C/19C. Further, if you check the FS9 map and pull up the facilities for KIAD, there is no freq's or course for 1C/19C. So ATC will not assign this runway combination in bad weather, since it sees no ILS.If the navaids are showing up in the AFCAD, but FS is not seeing them, is there a file missing, or the approach instructions?Thanks!Rick

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Different Jim here - the Navaids will have to added to FS scenery in order for FS ATC to work with the new runways and your map view to show them. Haven't seen any uploads yet on that.Jim Harnes

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Again, thanks "different Jim" for the reply. It actually is one of the old runways that isn't showing up in FS, but it was renamed. Since it is not in the FS database then, am I correct in assuming that ATC will not assign this runway in IFR conditions, or bad weather?Rick

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Correct. You can choose to request another runway, if my memory of FS ATC is correct, and avoid the problem. Or if WX permits just go visual.Jim Harnes

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RickFurther review shows the AFCAD does have some issues that need correcting. The runway link lines are blank. The 1C/19C did not get the ILS Idents assigned plus a few other minor issues.None of this has any effect on whether you can dial in the 1C/19C ILS or not. None of this has anything to do with ATC saying ILS or not.You can take any runway in FS that does not have a ILS and make ATC think it has a ILS. The ILS code for ATC does not come from any AFCAD or ILS symbol on the AFCAD grid but from the Approach Code that is written in XML and compiled to a bgl. The ILS symbol that shows on the GRID of AFCAD is for the User Planes radio only. The KIAD AFCAD does have 7 full ILS and if you are not picking one up on your User plane radio make sure you do not have 2 AFCAD's installed for KIAD. However there maybe a chance you are using a 3rd party airplane where the radio needs the ILS IDENT for verification in order to activate the panel gauges to fly the Localizer and GS. I personally did all the approach code for ImagineSIM which is the KIAD_app.bgl dated 11/24/08 listed in the scenery folder. That file tells ATC to use a runway when weather is VMC or IMC and call the correct runway numbers. I did not do the AFCAD but will send ImagineSim a AFCAD that fixes the missing IDENTS from 1C/19C, fix all the runway link lines and re-associate the ILS symbols to the correct runway link lines.

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RickFurther review shows the AFCAD does have some issues that need correcting. The runway link lines are blank. The 1C/19C did not get the ILS Idents assigned plus a few other minor issues.None of this has any effect on whether you can dial in the 1C/19C ILS or not. None of this has anything to do with ATC saying ILS or not.You can take any runway in FS that does not have a ILS and make ATC think it has a ILS. The ILS code for ATC does not come from any AFCAD or ILS symbol on the AFCAD grid but from the Approach Code that is written in XML and compiled to a bgl. The ILS symbol that shows on the GRID of AFCAD is for the User Planes radio only. The KIAD AFCAD does have 7 full ILS and if you are not picking one up on your User plane radio make sure you do not have 2 AFCAD's installed for KIAD. However there maybe a chance you are using a 3rd party airplane where the radio needs the ILS IDENT for verification in order to activate the panel gauges to fly the Localizer and GS. I personally did all the approach code for ImagineSIM which is the KIAD_app.bgl dated 11/24/08 listed in the scenery folder. That file tells ATC to use a runway when weather is VMC or IMC and call the correct runway numbers. I did not do the AFCAD but will send ImagineSim a AFCAD that fixes the missing IDENTS from 1C/19C, fix all the runway link lines and re-associate the ILS symbols to the correct runway link lines.
Jim Vile, thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying, as I have followed all of your in depth information for years now. I have the bgl in the Scenery\Generic folder. If I start FS9 with the default Cessna at KIAD, go to the map and look at the airport facilities that FS thinks it has, there are no frequencies or courses listed for 1C/19C, but all the other information is correct. If I open the AFCAD, and list the Navaids, they are all there, even 1C/19C. I am confused now! Where does FS get the information that it shows on the map and the facilities? Isn't that the information that FS uses when assigning AI in IFR weather? I don't have any other AFCAD for KIAD.If I am seeing a problem with just my setup, from what I'm describing, where should I look for the problem?Rick

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Jim Vile, thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying, as I have followed all of your in depth information for years now. I have the bgl in the Scenery\Generic folder. If I start FS9 with the default Cessna at KIAD, go to the map and look at the airport facilities that FS thinks it has, there are no frequencies or courses listed for 1C/19C, but all the other information is correct. If I open the AFCAD, and list the Navaids, they are all there, even 1C/19C. I am confused now! Where does FS get the information that it shows on the map and the facilities? Isn't that the information that FS uses when assigning AI in IFR weather? I don't have any other AFCAD for KIAD.If I am seeing a problem with just my setup, from what I'm describing, where should I look for the problem?Rick
What you are seeing is the same as everyone else. The map mode gets its data from 2 places once a AFCAD is added. The data is combined from the AP9 default bgl and additional data added at the AFCAD level. Since the AFCAD does not have any IDENTS in the runway property window the map mode cannot list data for 1C/19C. Once the AFCAD is fixed you will then see the 1C/19C course/freqs in map mode.ATC gets its information from the bgl I wrote for weather related approaches. That data is in the GPS receiver and on the approach page. All approches are being listed but again the GPS receiver is missing the 1C/19C course/freq information.You should be able to manually dial into your radio 111.3 and see both ends of the ILS on 1C/19C.You can place my KIAD_app.bgl into the Scenery\generic\scenery folder (optional) but the AFCAD must stay in the KIAD Scenery folder or the addon scenery\scenery folder.jim

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What you are seeing is the same as everyone else. The map mode gets its data from 2 places once a AFCAD is added. The data is combined from the AP9 default bgl and additional data added at the AFCAD level. Since the AFCAD does not have any IDENTS in the runway property window the map mode cannot list data for 1C/19C. Once the AFCAD is fixed you will then see the 1C/19C course/freqs in map mode.ATC gets its information from the bgl I wrote for weather related approaches. That data is in the GPS receiver and on the approach page. All approches are being listed but again the GPS receiver is missing the 1C/19C course/freq information.You should be able to manually dial into your radio 111.3 and see both ends of the ILS on 1C/19C.You can place my KIAD_app.bgl into the Scenery\generic\scenery folder (optional) but the AFCAD must stay in the KIAD Scenery folder or the addon scenery\scenery folder.jim
Jim,While we're on the subject, I wonder if you would give me some advice. I was thinking about trying my hand at some approach coding using Martin Gleeson's ILS and GPS approach utility. The manual that comes with that utility suggests that only the final approach phase is built, not the transition or the missed approach procedure. Is that something I need to turn to the FS2004 SDK for, or is there a utility you can recommend?Thanks in advance,-- Bryan

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Jim,While we're on the subject, I wonder if you would give me some advice. I was thinking about trying my hand at some approach coding using Martin Gleeson's ILS and GPS approach utility. The manual that comes with that utility suggests that only the final approach phase is built, not the transition or the missed approach procedure. Is that something I need to turn to the FS2004 SDK for, or is there a utility you can recommend?Thanks in advance,-- Bryan
BryanMartins utility is as close as whats avalible and like you say it only adds what we refer to as the default vector to final phase of a ILS or GPS type approach. That means it adds the IF => CF => CF=> runway elements to the XML.All my efforts for an approach utility have been placed into ADE which right now is FSX only. That utility adds all the different type approaches/Transitions when released in our next version of ADE including all the curved approaches I write such as the one for Kai Tak IGS 13.We at ADE are thinking in two different directions. One is make ADE FS9 compatible which then you have the approach utility including the automated crosswind technique. Another is to extract the approach utility out of ADE and make a stand alone utility that can be used to generate a seperate approch bgl that would be placed into the Scenery\generic\scenery folder of FS9.There is no difference in the FS9 or FSX database of approaches except FSX is more current with Jeppesen approaches and Terminal_Waypoints. One of the ways I tested our ADE approach utility was by writing the ImagineSim KIAD approaches with ADE and within FSX then I extracted out the XML and compiled to FS9 which made the KIAD_APP.bgl. Of course anyone that has both FSX and FS9 will be able to do the same thing but that does not help all the users that only have FS9. Our goal is to move in the direction of FSX and FS11 but we also want ADE to be able to address some of the FS9 code were applicable. Presently there is no all in one approach utility available. All that exist are post I have generated on various forums that help answer questions when writing approach code including the Transitions off a STAR arrival. Martin wrote the ILS creator from post that I generated on the old PAI forum which no longer exist. Many newer post are on FSDeveloper if you search approach and my user name jvile.

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BryanMartins utility is as close as whats avalible and like you say it only adds what we refer to as the default vector to final phase of a ILS or GPS type approach. That means it adds the IF => CF => CF=> runway elements to the XML.All my efforts for an approach utility have been placed into ADE which right now is FSX only. That utility adds all the different type approaches/Transitions when released in our next version of ADE including all the curved approaches I write such as the one for Kai Tak IGS 13.We at ADE are thinking in two different directions. One is make ADE FS9 compatible which then you have the approach utility including the automated crosswind technique. Another is to extract the approach utility out of ADE and make a stand alone utility that can be used to generate a seperate approch bgl that would be placed into the Scenery\generic\scenery folder of FS9.There is no difference in the FS9 or FSX database of approaches except FSX is more current with Jeppesen approaches and Terminal_Waypoints. One of the ways I tested our ADE approach utility was by writing the ImagineSim KIAD approaches with ADE and within FSX then I extracted out the XML and compiled to FS9 which made the KIAD_APP.bgl. Of course anyone that has both FSX and FS9 will be able to do the same thing but that does not help all the users that only have FS9. Our goal is to move in the direction of FSX and FS11 but we also want ADE to be able to address some of the FS9 code were applicable. Presently there is no all in one approach utility available. All that exist are post I have generated on various forums that help answer questions when writing approach code including the Transitions off a STAR arrival. Martin wrote the ILS creator from post that I generated on the old PAI forum which no longer exist. Many newer post are on FSDeveloper if you search approach and my user name jvile.
Wow, thanks for all of this excellent information. This gives me a lot to work on!-- Bryan

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