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bobbyjoh

Blurriies

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Hi everyone,I know it has been posted several times with some solutions, but what about these blurry textures in FS2002. After I upgraded my video card from an nVidia 2/GTS to a new nVidia 4/4200Ti/64, I now have blurry textures at times. I use nVidia detonator driver version 30.82, but I have received them with all current detonator versions up to the latest.When FS2002 first loads, everything is fine during most of the flight. When I start the decent, I then start to see ground textures beginning to blur from the horizon back toward my plane, to the point that all ground textures blur.Has anyone found out why this happens and what the cure is? Appreciate any input on the subject.Bob Johnson

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This is different from most of the blurry issues reported, but I saw this when I initially ran FS2002 off of a Voodoo 3. The issue did not go away until I upgraded my RAM from 128 megs to 256 megs. It seemed that FS2002 wasn't able to move textures in and out of the swap file fast enough to cope.The other issue that may be in play are "orphan" driver sets, that may be soaking up resources on your rig. If you haven't used Det. Destroyer, it may be worth a try, followed by a reinstall of your drivers, and finally Direct X.-John

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Try disabling mipmapping on the MSFS settings -> hardware page.PeteGADpmDG

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"Try disabling mipmapping on the MSFS settings -> hardware page."I do not recommend this. It not only will give a flickering and grainy look to the scenery textures, but it also is related to static texture sharpness, vs. the gradual blurring described in the thread. As oft noted, there are two distinct blurring issues--gradual and/or sustained blurring of the textures (dynamic), and the general (static) sharpness of the textures. Adjustments to LOD and anisotropic filtering are much better than disabling mipmapping altogether for the latter (static) issue.-John

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Hi Bob,I recently upgraded from GeForce 2 to GeForce 4 Ti4200 and that went a long way towards getting rid of my blurry problem. BUT, at first I still had some blurries after the Ti4200 was installed even though it was much better then before. I have now gotten rid of blurries (for slower aircraft 200mph and less) by changing the fs2002.cfg file. I'm using the values indicated below which I saw in a post on this forum from someone who signed his post "D.M". In any case this works for me and I'm very happy with the results. I might add that faster aircraft will still cause blurries but I'm happy with my setup and slower planes. If you want to try the fs2002.cfg changes and have any questions, let me know and I'll be glad to help.My system is a Dell PIII, 1 gig, GeForce 4 Ti4200 64 mb.In the "TERRAIN" section use these values in place of the default ones (results may vary depending on your system):TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=14.110000TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=19TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8TERRAIN_AUTOGEN_DENSITY=5TERRAIN_USE_GRADIENT_MAP=1TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=1TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=60.000000TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=40.000000TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=4Howard

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Thanks Howard,I will give these value a try, can't hurt. I am flying the PIC 767 so when I start desending I am doing about 280 knots and then all the way down to approach speed of 170 knots, which is where the blurry textures start. If you have any ideas apprecaite a post. I will post back here how these go.Again, thanks for the helpBob

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Bob, THis sounds like a classic case of dynamic blurred textures. Sadly, I don't know of a complete cure, but it can be improved by:1. Use the lowest frame rate limit you can - I use 16 FPS2. Reduce the terrain complexity setting In general, and assuming you have set a frame rate limit, then anything that would normally give a higher frame rate (e.g. reducing scenery complexity) will help this problem. Best regards, Chris

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Most people will probably dispute this but this is what works for me.Nevermind the settings in FS2002.cfg file. Leave them at default. Simply increase the anisotropic filtering settings for Direct3D to the highest level your system can handle without compromising too much on FPS (4x - 8x). I am using a 9700 Pro with AF at 16x now and the quality is the best I have had so far. However, I used to have a GeForce 3 with AF set to 4x and there was a major difference between 4x and none at all.I too used to suffer from the blurries and tried every suggestion ever made. I have found that changing the settings in the FS2002.cfg file actually causes more trouble and provides no improvement in visual quality.Jay

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I agree with you Jay about your suggestions.... The GeF and Radeon tweaks help much more with overall texture sharpness than the FS2002.cfg tweaks.But I think from the suggestions I've seen, many have missed the meaning of the thread. The FS2002.cfg tweaks and Aniso/LOD tweaks all deal with overall texture sharpness--not blurring over time (a.k.a. "dynamic" blurring"). Blurring over time is more a result of something picking away at the system resources during flight. Lowering the fps lock is one way of fixing it, and lowering the display sliders is another way of fixing it. It is even aircraft dependent--load up a high poly, large texture aircraft, and even more dynamic blurring will result.The other day, I flew the Ariane 737-300 cross country. Say what you will about Ariane, but their aircraft is a very "blur" and fps friendly aircraft. I got lazy halfway through my flight, and moved up to 8x. That gave me an effective ground speed of almost 4000 kts. I had no dynamic blurring.Aside from the slider settings and aircraft complexity in FS, another culprit for dynamic blurring is "orphan" driver entries, low RAM, a new applet running in the background (anyone remember when we used to call them TSR's?). I had to dig into the registry to fix some of those issues on my system. Since a card change was involved here, I think it's possible that something like that could have happened. Anything stealing cpu cycles from FS is going to cause dynamic blurring.But going back to what you first said Jay, I don't dispute your findings at all, when dealing with overall texture sharpness. Those tweaks are the way to go!

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John,I think you have a good point, I am on a flight right now on my main "puter", PIC/POSKY767 KPHL to KDEN, about 1 hour into the flight I got the blurries, I did load the terrain "fix" into the FS2002.cfg. My textures were sharp as hell for the first part of the flight and then out of no where at FL350, I looked out the cockpit and saw the dreaded blur of ground textures. When I went to spot view there also was no airplane textures either. I sat there for about one minute and then they popped back on, however the ground turned blue. I "monkeyed" around with the display settings going from VERY DENSE to DENSE and the ground textures came back clear as a bell right now.I have a feeling that this is like others have said on this thread and on another that something is stealing cpu cycles. I am running Radar Contact v3, FSRealtime, Active Sky v1.8beta along with my FS2002 set with a locked frame rate of 15, I am getting 13-14 at altitude right now.What do you guys think of this software: http://www.oo-software.com/english/product...cpro/index.html?I am almost convinced that this blurry problem is a resource issue. The strange thing, it use to NEVER happen on my system.What are you guys thoughts?Bob

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Same thing began happening to me a few weeks ago... I use Rivatuner to tweak my settings on a Ti4600 and my graphics where beautiful... then one day on a flight down to miami, all hell broke loose. I know have constant blurries, to the point it almost seems like my video cards FSAA and Anistropic filter quit working...Not sure if that can happen or if it's related to the CPU deal, but sure is hard to swallow when you head beautiful graphics for such a long time.The real sad thing, is I've tried everything... I run adaware to get rid of that crap, end-it-all, adjust sliders every which way, turn FPS down... but no matter what I do, it stays the same... almost like someone sprayed something on my monitor ;-)I don't even like loading the game up anymore... I go and play Shoot-em-up games now instead. ;-)saaddd.... boy, do you think I'll have better luck with FS2004 LOL

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That tool is based on a premise similar to that of Cacheman, another cache management tool aimed primarily at Win 95 & Win 98 users. Cacheman has helped with low memory systems--I use it to limit my vcache in 98SE (although it isn't required, the entries can be manually entered).The tool you mention I find a bit suspect. On my WAN, the far majority of our workstations have Windows 2000. We have perhaps 30, 40 98SE systems running older legacy software and hardware. I've never had to apply any cache "tweaks" to get maximum performance from the W2000 workstations. And in our weekly WAN meetings, we gossip about a lot of issues, but cache tweaking on the 2000 systems and the 20 or so XP systems has not been one of them.I'd still lay odds that something is eating CPU cycles, especially since the only real change in your system seems to be the graphics card itself.

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Hi John,This tool was designed for Windows XP, since it has a memory resouce capability plus cache management, I thought I would give it a try. As you can see from the many post, something is going on with LOTS of folks system. Notice the guy that posted right after my last post, sounds just like me.For sometime I NEVER had a problem and the wham the blurries started, I don't think it could be the card. My old card was a GForce2/GTS/64.What AGP aperature size do you run. Can this make a difference I have had mine set to both 64 and 128mb. What do you thinkCheersBob

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I had wondered about the AGP app--I was going to ask. I've always run with 64 megs, which is my MB default. You can disable AGP, and see if that changes the issue. You have two ways--you can disable it in DirectX, or lower your AGP app. to 16Megs or less.I have to say I run a fairly stripped version of FS2002. No add-ons, other than FSUIPC and a few aircraft add-ons. The only utilities I use are the two I wrote--Autoland and LCA. The only reason I suspected your card, is you mentioned this came on after the new card was installed. Whenever that happens, there's always the hardware, and always the drivers.There is one other issue I am curious about. I'd like to see the entries in your scenery.cfg. I've sent you a private message with my email address. If you can forward a copy, I'll look it over for any suspect entries, and I'll return an edited copy to you--won't take more than a few minutes of my time. -John

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John,I did not get your email, send it to bobbyjoh@attbi.comThanks for taking a look.Bob

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Hi Bob try GEFORCE TWEAKER in the system tab at the bottom experimental Enable 256 burst I enabled this and found a distinct improvement. BLASTER 4200TI DET 43.45 DX9A. JOHN

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Are you sure that works? It says:"GTU 3.2 is not compatible with the 29.60 (or newer) drivers."Maybe it works with the 43.45 drivers.. I really dunno!

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John, Jerry is correct that tweaker file on the site says not for drivers newer than 29.60. Since I run 30.82's and many folks are at the new nVidia driver 4XXX drivers that utility won't work.On a different subject. How many folks have tried to run at 16 bit resolution to see if the texture issue remains at any resolution but at 16 bit instead of 32. What do you all think is the main differnce in runnin 16 vs. 32.When you do experience blurry ground textures do you also have problems with aircraft textures loading very slow or not at all.Comments appreciated.CheersBob

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The dreaded blurries, I have managed to get my system tweaked and not have to many blurries, one thing that helped was changing some settings in the FS2002.cfg file [TERRAIN]TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=1.000000TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=19TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8TERRAIN_AUTOGEN_DENSITY=2TERRAIN_USE_GRADIENT_MAP=1TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=1TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=40.000000TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=60.000000TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=3The most important part is this: TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=40.000000TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=60.000000I have experimented with different numbers and these have given me the best luck for the blurries, I have tried my FS on 16 BIT and the blurries were still there, My experience with blurries is after longers flights around 1+ hours, as I start my decent the textures take longer to get displayed correctly, I don't have any problems with Aircraft blurries, I run the 43.45 drivers with Direct X 9.0A

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>John, Jerry is correct that tweaker file on the site says not>for drivers newer than 29.60. Since I run 30.82's and many>folks are at the new nVidia driver 4XXX drivers that utility>won't work.>>On a different subject. How many folks have tried to run at>16 bit resolution to see if the texture issue remains at any>resolution but at 16 bit instead of 32. What do you all think>is the main differnce in runnin 16 vs. 32.>>When you do experience blurry ground textures do you also have>problems with aircraft textures loading very slow or not at>all.>>Comments appreciated.>>Cheers>>BobThe problem is really not the video card at all as the problem is directly related to the LOD detail of the mesh that the textures get drawn to, the whole process seems to be waiting for the CPU to compute the instructions for the mesh as you may notice even the autogen is delayed.The more you can relieve your CPU (or get a more powerful one) as John has pointed out the less this is a problem, and yes the memory subsystem contributes but mainly it is a cpu issue.

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Poof,I find it hard to believe that a PIV 1.7ghz system is not capable of running FS2K2. I think this is pure hog wash. I don't have a low end system. This problem with Blurry textures is due to some factor that we are all searching for. As you know, MS does monitor these forums. This issue is just a puzzle to me, I am looking to anyone for advice, but this is just a dumb problem. I did not have these problems a month ago and now here comes the blurries. We need to all look for some root cause of the problem.Lets pull together to look for a solution. More to followCheersBob

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>Poof,>>I find it hard to believe that a PIV 1.7ghz system is not>capable of running FS2K2. I think this is pure hog wash. I>don't have a low end system. This problem with Blurry>textures is due to some factor that we are all searching for. >As you know, MS does monitor these forums. >>This issue is just a puzzle to me, I am looking to anyone for>advice, but this is just a dumb problem. I did not have these>problems a month ago and now here comes the blurries. We need>to all look for some root cause of the problem.>>Lets pull together to look for a solution. More to follow>>Cheers>>BobYou know Bob; I personally wouldn't give you an answer like that if I was guessing, but if you don't like the answer that

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"The more powerful a CPU you have combined with a faster memory subsystem and the more you can dedicate all of your system to just run FS2k2 the less likely you are to encounter the dreaded blurries (well and of course the more you turn details down

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Hi Paul,This is one dead ... smelly horse. I know that I love to learn the hard way! I think that you have done a spectacular job of documenting this problem and I thank you for all the help. It has reduced a lot furstration on my part and allowed me to enjoy MSFS for what it is. I like to fly and try to stay away from the tweaking...although many times that is what I end up doing. Anyway,FS2004 is right around the corner and I am sure that it will also be a challenge in its own way. This go around I may stick with FS2002 for another year. I do not think I have the time or energy to do all this tweaking.Well thats all from the land of no blurries.Tony Ascaso RN

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I have a 2.53GHz machine and still get the blurries every now and then. Of course all of the 38m mesh probably doesn't help much! I usually just stick with slower planes...I still search the forum archives every now and then to look up the research you and others have contributed to the blurry texture issue. I think this would be a great addition to the new tips & tricks forum, even if it's just a list of links to past discussions.Thanks for all of that research Paul... I have one of your conclusive posts saved to my hard drive somewhere!Paul

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