HyperThread - FSX - i7 -and YOU

[AlphaInfinity 13]

Something I want to bring up in regards to Hyperthreading and FSX. While hyperthreading may not benefit FSX performance directly I have found it benefits MY FSX performance INDIRECTLY. How? Well, I run add-on programs like Active Sky Advance and Radar Contact. It appears that with Hyperthreading enabled XP shifts the processing of these programs to the virtual cores. I have seen better FSX performance when running these programs with Hyperthreading enabled, rather than disabled.

I would agree with this. I have had HT on and while FSX may not take advantage of it I am willing to bet the operating system will. There may be a negative performance impact on FSX but that may be negated by the OS using all 8 logical processors for other functions. Here is an interesting benchmark that was done with RWA testing:http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL/articles/am...i7_Uitgediept/3Either way, I really don't notice any difference with HT on vs off in FSX. I havn't tried the affinity mask settings yet as I thought that SP2 automatically took care of this. The one negative aspect of having HT ON is the fact that the CPU temperature will be higher especially if the processor is under heavy load.EDIT:Nick,Quick question. With SP2, I was under the impression that the application would automatically set the affinity to all the available CPU's. Am I correct when I say that the [JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=N setting overrides this setting and tells FSX to use specific CPU's? The reason I am asking is because even with the affinitymask setting in the .CFG file, when I right click on the FSX.EXE process the affinity still shows to be on all 8 cpu's and with a 252 setting I am seeing the last two CPU's getting heavy utilization while the first 6 are almost idle. It doesn't matter what affinity setting I use in the config file, it looks like the last core is heavily utilized. For this particular screenshot, my config was setup as follows:

[JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=252[SOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}SOUND_FADER1=0.500000SOUND_FADER2=0.500000SOUND_FADER3=0.500000SOUND_FADER4=-0.500000AmbientUIMusic=FSX01[Display]

Here is another screenshot with the affinity mask set at 63:

[JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=63[SOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}SOUND_FADER1=0.500000SOUND_FADER2=0.500000SOUND_FADER3=0.500000SOUND_FADER4=-0.500000AmbientUIMusic=FSX01[Display]

And finally with 127:

[JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=127[SOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}SOUND_FADER1=0.500000SOUND_FADER2=0.500000SOUND_FADER3=0.500000SOUND_FADER4=-0.500000AmbientUIMusic=FSX01[Display]

[AlphaInfinity 13]

Hi all,Is anybody else getting the same results that I am with the affinity setting?

[Bob Scott 7,721]

Hi all,Is anybody else getting the same results that I am with the affinity setting?

No, not at all. Is this the stock FSX.exe, or has it been modded? If the process affinity mask in the program's PE header has been changed, that might explain this. The CPU loads don't make sense given your AffinityMask settings.Another thought...make sure you don't have another JOBSCHEDULER section later in your fsx.cfg file...that would override the previous setting. Also, make sure this is the fsx.cfg file, not fsx.cfg.txt (possible if you have the "show file extensions" option disabled in Windows).RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[AlphaInfinity 13]

No, not at all. Is this the stock FSX.exe, or has it been modded? If the process affinity mask in the program's PE header has been changed, that might explain this. The CPU loads don't make sense given your AffinityMask settings.Another thought...make sure you don't have another JOBSCHEDULER section later in your fsx.cfg file...that would override the previous setting. Also, make sure this is the fsx.cfg file, not fsx.cfg.txt (possible if you have the "show file extensions" option disabled in Windows).RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

Colonel thank you for the reply sir. I have double checked my config file multiple times. It is as the top of the config file and it is also the only entry in the .CFG file. I have confirmed the path to the config file several times. I am running Acceleration. I also right clicked on the FSX.EXE before I took these screenshots and the affinity is set to all 8 logical processors. I have posted my full FSX.CFG file below because I have been on-call for the last few weeks and I have a mild case of sleep dep, so perhaps I am missing something here :(

JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=255[SOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1PrimaryDevice={DEF00000-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}VoiceDevice={DEF00002-9C6D-47ED-AAF1-4DDA8F2B5C03}SOUND_FADER1=0.500000SOUND_FADER2=0.500000SOUND_FADER3=0.500000SOUND_FADER4=-0.500000AmbientUIMusic=FSX01[Display]ChangeTime=4.000000TransitionTime=4.000000ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoBrakesEnable=TrueInfoParkingBrakesEnable=TrueInfoPauseEnable=TrueInfoSlewEnable=TrueInfoStallEnable=TrueInfoOverspeedEnable=TrueBLOOM_EFFECTS=0SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=70poolsize=200000000 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260.0]Mode=1920x1200x32TriLinear=1[CONTROLS]Controls_Default=StandardControls_Current=StandardKBDAIL=64KBDELEV=64KBDRUD=64[GRAPHICS]SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693500672TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=1024NUM_LIGHTS=8AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=0AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1LANDING_LIGHTS=1AC_SELF_SHADOW=0EFFECTS_QUALITY=2GROUND_SHADOWS=0TEXTURE_QUALITY=3IMAGE_QUALITY=0See_Self=1Text_Scroll=1SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED_10=1693500672D3D10=0[TextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6[TextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2GForce=1,3FuelPercentage=1,4[TextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2GForce=2,3FuelPercentage=2,4[SlewTextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5[SlewTextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2[SlewTextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2[DynamicHeadMovement]LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000MaxHeadAngle=5.000000MaxHeadOffset=0.300000HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000[VirtualCopilot]VirtualCopilotActive=0[USERINTERFACE]PageID=1SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=0PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=1PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1SITUATION=FLIGHTS\OTHER\FLTSIMMap_Orientation=2ShowAllACPaintSchemes=1SelectAircraftManufacturer=AllSelectAircraftPublisher=AllSelectAircraftType=AllOpenATCOnCreate=0DisplayFuelAsWeight=0[ATC]ShowATCText=1COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFFCOMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21BCOMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=1UsePilotVoice=1PilotVoice=0[PointOfInterestSystem]CycleSetting=0[SCENERY]LENSFLARE=0DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=2[TrafficManager]AirlineDensity=0GADensity=0FreewayDensity=0ShipsAndFerriesDensity=0LeisureBoatsDensity=0IFROnly=0AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=0[TERRAIN]LOD_RADIUS=4.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=100MESH_RESOLUTION=22TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29AUTOGEN_DENSITY=0DETAIL_TEXTURE=1WATER_EFFECTS=4[AContain]ShowLabels=0ShowUserLabel=0ShowLabelManufacturer=1ShowLabelModel=1ShowLabelTailNumber=0ShowLabelDistance=1ShowLabelAltitude=1ShowLabelAirline=0ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0ShowLabelFlightPlan=0ShowLabelContainerId=0ShowLabelAirspeed=0ShowLabelHeading=0LabelDelay=1000LabelColor=FFFF0000[INTERNATIONAL]ASLAT=2ASLON=1MEASURE=0[REALISM]PFactor=1.000000Torque=1.000000GyroEffect=1.000000CrashTolerance=1.000000General=1.000000UnlimitedFuel=FalseTrueAirspeed=FalseAutoCoord=FalseRealMixture=TrueStressDamage=TrueGEffect=TrueManualLights=TrueGyroDrift=FalseCrashWithDyn=TrueCrashDetection=TrueAutoTrim=FalseAllowEngineDamage=True[SIM]SYSCLOCK=1[STARTUP]DEMO=0SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=1STARTUP_DEMO=LoadWindow=1[FACILITIES]COUNTRY=STATE=CITY=GTL_BUTTON=1232[Misc]Com_Rate=7[Trusted]G:\Microsoft 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[Bob Scott 7,721]

I tried something interesting today with respect to HT on my i7 machine. Just for grins, I turned HT on, and set AffinityMask to 255 (all cores). It clearly kneecapped FSX, bringing frames near KLGA down to a 3-5 fps slideshow--this on a 4.4 GHz i7 975. Wow.So I did a few more experiments, and thought it through a bit. I noticed that when the virtual CPU on the same core as the FSX primary thread was unloaded, the problems went away. I ran a bunch of test flights in my own FSX performance pit (takeoff at FSDreamTeam KJFK rwy 13R, climbing left turn over the airport to 1000 ft and hdg 340, the fly at 1000 to KLGA for a visual to rwy 4).The best--and an improvement in both frame rates and smoothness from my best "HT disabled" config, was with AffinityMask 244. That leaves the entire first physical core alone (for OS and other processes), puts the FSX primary thread on the first virtual CPU of the second core and blocks FSX from using the other half of that core, and then allows FSX to use both virtual processors on the other two cores. The attached screenshot shows processor utilization.Turning on HT induced a BSOD that required a one-step increase in CPU core voltage (to 1.36875v). Temps were up 3-4 deg C, to 52 deg on the active cores (water cooling).The improvement was not dramatic, since the machine was doing well with only the 4 physical cores, but there was enough marginal improvement that I'm going to try running it this way for a while. With HT disabled, the three secondary cores in use would occasionally spike up to 100% load and flatline there for a few seconds when doing texture loads...with HT enabled, the 4 virtual processors running the secondary threads very rarely get to 100%.My preliminary conclusion is that the primary FSX thread, having not been designed originally for multithreaded ops, suffers from performance-killing thread collisions if another CPU-intensive process is run on the other virtual processor sharing the same physical core. The texture loading threads added in SP2, which were probably designed to operate in a multithreaded environment, don't seem to impede each other when sharing virtual processors across the same core. Setting AffinityMask to 244 sets up the cores and vCPUs as follows:CORE 0CPU0 - Free | CPU1 - FreeCORE 1CPU2 - FSX Primary | CPU3 - Free CORE 2CPU4 & CPU5 - FSX secondary CORE 3CPU6 & CPU7 - FSX SecondaryI'd be interested to see if anyone else running an i7 sees the same sort of performance behavior.RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Bob Scott 7,721]

I have double checked my config file multiple times. It is as the top of the config file and it is also the only entry in the .CFG file. I have confirmed the path to the config file several times. I am running Acceleration. I also right clicked on the FSX.EXE before I took these screenshots and the affinity is set to all 8 logical processors. I have posted my full FSX.CFG file below because I have been on-call for the last few weeks and I have a mild case of sleep dep, so perhaps I am missing something here :(

JOBSCHEDULER]AffinityMask=255

Steve; The bracket in front of JOBSCHEDULER is missing...that's probably just a miss on the cut-n-paste. I have that section at the tail end of the fsx.cfg file, not that it should make a difference. What OS are you using?RegardsBob ScottColonel, USAF (ret)ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VColorado Springs, CO

[Guest Nick_N]

What you are doing is tuning thread collisions Bob and doing so can smooth things out and I can even see a small perf increase too, IF the system is displaying issues with FSX and the primary core, however be advised that I discussed this directly with Phil Taylor who, to be sure the information he gave me was accurate, contacted Adam the terrain/thread man for FSX who confirmed the app is not in any way shape or form using the virtual core threads.The reason the activity shows is because with i7 there is a physical cache attached to the physical core which is dedicated to the HT thread but that thread, although spawned, processes no information from FSX whatso ever.So what you are seeing is the result of simply tuning out timing problems with threads as your assessment of collisions on the primary core is correct.Unlike yours, when it comes to air cooled system having HT enabled will increase temps and most likely force the user to drop CPU speed. Working with this is a case where the result regardless of the loss in clock would present a defined benefit to doing so.I can see value in tuning out thread collisions for those having problems with i7 and FSX, however I do not see any of those issues here on my systems and have no need to work affinity, and yes I have tried to work with affinity in the same way you have but with no discernable change. I think thread tuning can be done with HT disabled too.As for OS support, WindowsXp and the Server products that were spawned about the same time will make use of HT with a patch however it is a very archaic way of using it. Vista makes better use of it for processes and W7 will make full use modern Intel HT which is one of the upgrades over Vista. That being said, in this case its not going to make FSX run better just because the OS is scheduling processed to the virtual caches. The amount of OS activity on a correctly optimized system is minimal in that respect.Lets think about this logically.. if you are accessing/fully processing on 4 additional threads/caches you would be able to increase autogen in places you never could before and maintain higher frame rates.. that

[Guest Nick_N]

The following items are in the wrong place in the config file shown above and is not in any way being addressed by the system running that config[Display]DisablePreload=1poolsize=200000000 Sometimes we see things that do not exist and believe something that is not true. After adding those items to the config if a user thinks they see a positive change, they would be quite wrongThe correct use of the items listed above are:[MAIN] (can also be under [sTARTUP], either oneDisablePreload=1[bUFFERPOOLS]poolsize=200000000Autogen slider is set to zero?AUTOGEN_DENSITY=0It would be difficult to correctly assess a multithread process change in config from FSX if the autogen is OFF. The only items that address threads past the primary assigned core to FSX are terrain/textures and autogenAutogen is the primary load factor to using multicore with FSX and as I recall the Orbx scenery is different from default in how it works with the system and therefore may respond differently to config/slider changes

[AlphaInfinity 13]

The following items are in the wrong place in the config file shown above and is not in any way being addressed by the system running that config[Display]DisablePreload=1poolsize=200000000 Sometimes we see things that do not exist and believe something that is not true. After adding those items to the config if a user thinks they see a positive change, they would be quite wrongThe correct use of the items listed above are:[MAIN] (can also be under [sTARTUP], either oneDisablePreload=1[bUFFERPOOLS]poolsize=200000000Autogen slider is set to zero?AUTOGEN_DENSITY=0It would be difficult to correctly assess a multithread process change in config from FSX if the autogen is OFF. The only items that address threads past the primary assigned core to FSX are terrain/textures and autogenAutogen is the primary load factor to using multicore with FSX and as I recall the Orbx scenery is different from default in how it works with the system and therefore may respond differently to config/slider changes

Nick,As usual you are absolutely correct! Now that autogen is set to "normal", I am seeing the load spread across several processors.

[David Roch 1,982]

I've never been so happy since I got rid of the added JOBSCHEDULER and BUFFERPOOLs entries from FSX.cfg!:--))

[vgbaron 3,627]

I've never been so happy since I got rid of the added JOBSCHEDULER and BUFFERPOOLs entries from FSX.cfg!:--))

That's cuz you're just easy, David! :( Vic

[Guest Nick_N]

I've never been so happy since I got rid of the added JOBSCHEDULER and BUFFERPOOLs entries from FSX.cfg!:--))

Thats because you run DX10.. Bufferpools does not work correctly with DX10and affinity mask tuning is a bit rare to see running DX10of course you get to deal with all the other little DX10 visual problems.. :(

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

I have to disagree with this. When I run with hyperthreading off it's as though I'm running a Core 2 Quad again, regardless of AffinityMask setting. As with my move from single to dual core, when I moved from C2 Duo to C2 Quad the doubling of threads was apparent in the reduction of micro stutters and in the near doubling of my terrain texture loading power, which halves my propensity for blurries. Moving from C2 Quad to i7 again gives me results I consider consistent with a doubling of threads. Blurries are now a thing of the past, as the highest LOD is snapped in at all times, regardless of speed, autogen density, or frame locks. In fact terrain loads faster now unlocked than it did on C2 Quad locked with 20fps of headroom. Micro stutters are also a thing of the past, as the sim is now as fluid unlocked as it was on C2Q locked with the 20fps of headroom. I attribute both of these improvements to hyperthreading, and when I disable it... hello micro stutters.The only problem I've found with my i7/Win7 setup is the occurance of the herky jerky noted above, which is totally different from the micro stutters experienced with unlocked frames on my last three systems. On my screen the herky jerky looks like the scene is jerking 3/4 inch at a time, and it is something I've not encountered until i7. For me herky jerky only occurs when using an unlimited frame lock. Since i7 seemed to rid all stutters and blurries, I saw little need to lock the frame rate, and I was reluctant to use it, though being the only solution to herky jerky I had no choice. To compensate for the frame rate hit associated with the lock, and to harness the extra texture loading power of i7, I set a very low fiber frame time fraction. Using a low fiber fraction produces a nice framerate gain at the expense of texture loading power, though i7 combined with a locked framerate can spare a good deal of it's texture loading headroom. So what I have found to be the best solution with i7 is to have Hyperthreading ENABLED with a Framerate Lock of 25 or 30, No Affinitymask tweak, and a Fiber Fraction of 10 seasoned to taste, with higher values leaning toward terrain load speed, and lower values leaning toward framerate.(snip)Please try using JOBSCHEDULER with an affinity mask of: 85 and Hyperthreading on. You will be a happy camper. At least..I am...lol.

[Guest Seria17hri11er]

I have to disagree with this. When I run with hyperthreading off it's as though I'm running a Core 2 Quad again, regardless of AffinityMask setting. As with my move from single to dual core, when I moved from C2 Duo to C2 Quad the doubling of threads was apparent in the reduction of micro stutters and in the near doubling of my terrain texture loading power, which halves my propensity for blurries. Moving from C2 Quad to i7 again gives me results I consider consistent with a doubling of threads. Blurries are now a thing of the past, as the highest LOD is snapped in at all times, regardless of speed, autogen density, or frame locks. In fact terrain loads faster now unlocked than it did on C2 Quad locked with 20fps of headroom. Micro stutters are also a thing of the past, as the sim is now as fluid unlocked as it was on C2Q locked with the 20fps of headroom. I attribute both of these improvements to hyperthreading, and when I disable it... hello micro stutters.The only problem I've found with my i7/Win7 setup is the occurance of the herky jerky noted above, which is totally different from the micro stutters experienced with unlocked frames on my last three systems. On my screen the herky jerky looks like the scene is jerking 3/4 inch at a time, and it is something I've not encountered until i7. For me herky jerky only occurs when using an unlimited frame lock. Since i7 seemed to rid all stutters and blurries, I saw little need to lock the frame rate, and I was reluctant to use it, though being the only solution to herky jerky I had no choice. To compensate for the frame rate hit associated with the lock, and to harness the extra texture loading power of i7, I set a very low fiber frame time fraction. Using a low fiber fraction produces a nice framerate gain at the expense of texture loading power, though i7 combined with a locked framerate can spare a good deal of it's texture loading headroom. So what I have found to be the best solution with i7 is to have Hyperthreading ENABLED with a Framerate Lock of 25 or 30, No Affinitymask tweak, and a Fiber Fraction of 10 seasoned to taste, with higher values leaning toward terrain load speed, and lower values leaning toward framerate.(snip)Please try using JOBSCHEDULER with an affinity mask of: 85 and Hyperthreading on. You will be a happy camper. At least..I am...lol.

Interesting. What do you make of this Nick N?

[Guest Nick_N]

Interesting. What do you make of this Nick N?

FSX does not make any use of hyperthread - Phil TaylorFiber frame time fraction is useless with multicore processors after SP1 - Phil TaylorAffinity mask can be used to tune out thread collisions and most will find its not needed - NickN