AirFrance A330 missing

[vololiberista 205]

Who said I wasn't a pilot? I know the A330 and weather radar. Firsthand.Back in 1963 I think the microchip wasn't in use AND I don't think there was a thing such as weather radar.It seems odd that PIREPs and other things like WXR didn't guide the pilots to make an informed decision. That is why I look at all the facts and possibilities.The aircraft may have very well 'broken up' in a storm, but how did it happen. As there are no black boxes and ACARS reports loss of systems, this does not necessarily mean that weather caused it. Simulating loss of airspeed does not take every system offline thank you.Because these aircraft have built in strength I will contest that if a storm was flown into there must have been indications. Cloudy night with moon is an indication. Lightning is an indication. And I would say AF pilots would know how to use a weather radar. A country that has a train that can reach speeds of up to 600km/hr and has 80% of its energy through nuclear power cannot be that dumb.You are quoting things I didn't say dumbass. Go get a life. Daniel

Perhaps You should re-read what you wrote. And you can stop swearing!!! Especially when it is quite clear that other people in this thread clearly know much more than you about the subject. Don't waste your time or ours with your stupid and rude comments!!!vololiberista

[mgh 89]

Baring in mind the original topic and the tragic loss of life involved, its a shame that this thread has descended into the usual aggressive mud slinging and personnel attacks.Andy

I said much the same thing and was told to "get of my high horse". That says a lot about those who post here doesn't it?

[Guest F4PhantomRAAF2]

Perhaps You should re-read what you wrote. And you can stop swearing!!! Especially when it is quite clear that other people in this thread clearly know much more than you about the subject. Don't waste your time or ours with your stupid and rude comments!!!vololiberista

Go back to Cuba where you belong man. Stop being a dictator. We are living in the free 'West' here. We exchange views even they don't agree with your viewpoint. We believe in democracy where everyone has a vote (has a say).If you want to start a club (maybe like Iraq under Saddam where everyone says 'Yes') where your members say yes and worship you, feel free to go right ahead.This is a public forum. You misquoted me and you imply things which are not very smart. Please stop doing this, and yes that is why I called you dumbass, because you simply cannot argue and would rather be the boss of a forum rather than allow different views.But hey if this forum doesn't allow views different to yours show me and get the admins on to me, and I will kindly leave and go back to my pilots forum. And when I am rude (which is very unusual for me), you have gone way too far.I am all for a good friendly discussion but if others wish to contest your views by name calling and 'putting you down', and then telling you that you aren't welcome on the forum, it sounds like bully behaviour from a very unintelligent person to me.It's quite amusing to see some people use the word 'sprouting' when references are posted and referred to. Maybe some of you should brush up on your debating skills because you seem to use 'simple' language to attack which really does not give credit to anything where it is due.Airmanship in aviation is vital to safety and it is readily proven where disasters have happened the pilots lacked the ability to question the Captain (lack of airmanship). KLM and Korean airlines were symptomatic of this. That is why CRM was introduced.Now what I am saying is that this weather happens in the tropics and the pilots do know about it and they do know how to use a weather radar. Even inexperienced pilots can use a weather radar.I like to keep an open mind and remain skeptical on my investigations which has led me many times to making right decisions.Now if you can't accept my opinions that is ok, but if you can't tolerate me having a view, that is your problem and please deal with it. I hope you never become a Captain. Never. Sounds like you aren't even in the aviation profession to start with anyway.From now on I will remain courteous, but you will have to tolerate my views and stop name calling, even if you disagree with them. It is called 'community'. Without differing views it is unintelligent and not so much fun. Lack of diversity is boring at best and mind numbing at worst.You could say "Well I disagree with that." And then you can go through point by point WHY you disagree, and not pick a name for me for every point. "I disagree with that because according to this information, the pilots were in the cockpit and didn't see any weather on the radar" etc etc (example)Daniel

[Guest F4PhantomRAAF2]

Baring in mind the original topic and the tragic loss of life involved, its a shame that this thread has descended into the usual aggressive mud slinging and personnel attacks.Andy

I would like to discuss the accident Andy without attacks and mudslinging. I am 'sprouting views' that do not agree with some members so it is no surprise that they think I shouldn't have views unless they agree with the bullies. Yes there are bullies in cyberspace unfortunately.I merely question how a large modern passenger aircraft with extensive procedures and systems in place as well as a high tech world could be downed by some big CBs. Pilots NEVER fly into those things. While weather radar might not be as functional in the tropics it still works quite fine. I have experience with flying in the tropics. The fact is two terror suspects were aboard the flight and also the black boxes have not been found. And France is not liked amongst extremist Islamic circles.http://news.sky.com/...200906215300405Daniel

[viz 139]

I said much the same thing and was told to "get of my high horse". That says a lot about those who post here doesn't it?

There is disrespecting the casualties and there is disrespecting those who are disrespecting the truth, spot the difference?

[RyanB 0]

I would like to discuss the accident Andy without attacks and mudslinging. I am 'sprouting views' that do not agree with some members so it is no surprise that they think I shouldn't have views unless they agree with the bullies. Yes there are bullies in cyberspace unfortunately.I merely question how a large modern passenger aircraft with extensive procedures and systems in place as well as a high tech world could be downed by some big CBs. Pilots NEVER fly into those things. While weather radar might not be as functional in the tropics it still works quite fine. I have experience with flying in the tropics. The fact is two terror suspects were aboard the flight and also the black boxes have not been found. And France is not liked amongst extremist Islamic circles.http://news.sky.com/...200906215300405Daniel

You do recognize what happens when Small storm A sits directly in front of major storm B correct?Pilot flies into small storm A, knowing it's within the capability of his airplane, only to find out about storm B when he reaches it. Radar is just Radar, it's not the tell all weather miracle machine.Lets pretend the airplane was hijacked though, then what?

[Guest F4PhantomRAAF2]

You do recognize what happens when Small storm A sits directly in front of major storm B correct?Pilot flies into small storm A, knowing it's within the capability of his airplane, only to find out about storm B when he reaches it. Radar is just Radar, it's not the tell all weather miracle machine.Lets pretend the airplane was hijacked though, then what?

My theory (if it was hijacked and we don't know) is that if it was hijacked the hijackers either took control like Atta did (and could only fly basic) or let the pilots fly. I suspect the hijackers would have done the flying, but without their names and background it will be difficult to build a 'probable scenario. What we do know is the aircraft flew into the storm, so maybe the pilots were dead or out of the cockpit. I doubt pilots would fly into a storm. And the weather radar can be read to show that a storm (:( is sitting behind storm A. Any Airbus pilot can tell you this. Ask. I also could confirm it with a line pilot on same machine.Daniel

[airboatr 0]

The only thing been hijacked even remotely connected to this thread, Is the thread itself... Fin

[viz 139]

I doubt pilots would fly into a storm. And the weather radar can be read to show that a storm (:( is sitting behind storm A. Any Airbus pilot can tell you this. Ask. I also could confirm it with a line pilot on same machine.Daniel

Daniel, when you shine a torch onto an object you illuminate that object and not what is behind it (that is why shadows are comparatively dark :( ). Furthermore, the shadow cast by the object (aka radar blind spot) grows relative to the inverse distance of the object from the torch.The pilots could have conceivably flown through what appeared to be a small storm only to be confronted by a much larger one behind it. Now factor in super-cooled water freezing on contact with the pitot tubes, instrument discontinuity, autopilot disengagement, severe turbulence and pitch darkness...

[Guest F4PhantomRAAF2]

The only thing been hijacked even remotely connected to this thread, Is the thread itself... Fin

Here is how the thread started. Its discussing the flight AF447. So how has it been hijacked exactly? I don't think there is radar over the Atlantic by the way."Frightening news, have a look here.Apparently the jet vanished from radar and all communications lost.They say there is little hope but it's not been found yet... uhhm. "Daniel

[Guest F4PhantomRAAF2]

Daniel, when you shine a torch onto an object you illuminate that object and not what is behind it (that is why shadows are comparatively dark :( ). Furthermore, the shadow cast by the object (aka radar blind spot) grows relative to the inverse distance of the object from the torch.The pilots could have conceivably flown through what appeared to be a small storm only to be confronted by a much larger one behind it. Now factor in super-cooled water freezing on contact with the pitot tubes, instrument discontinuity, autopilot disengagement, severe turbulence and pitch darkness...

I understand the theories and the theory of the crash. But if the weather radar shows red, then nothing, it means you don't go there. I learnt that a long time ago. I think the issue here is adjusting the sensitivity of the radar.But I think we can't rule out terrorism as long as we do not know who the passengers were. One thing that is against my argument is no terror group claimed responsibility for downing the aircraft. But homegrown terror can act without network affiliation.This is for my argument though:http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/air-france-update-bomb-threat-received_100200486.htmlDaniel

[FLEX1978 373]

My theory (if it was hijacked and we don't know) is that if it was hijacked the hijackers either took control like Atta did (and could only fly basic) or let the pilots fly. I suspect the hijackers would have done the flying, but without their names and background it will be difficult to build a 'probable scenario. What we do know is the aircraft flew into the storm, so maybe the pilots were dead or out of the cockpit. I doubt pilots would fly into a storm. And the weather radar can be read to show that a storm (:( is sitting behind storm A. Any Airbus pilot can tell you this. Ask. I also could confirm it with a line pilot on same machine.Daniel

Daniel,While I agree with most of your previous post about name calling and the right to have a opinion you lose all credibility when you insist on bringing up this hijack nonsense regarding AF.As others have mentioned it is highly likely that the crew would have thought they we're punching through a hole in the storm according to the wx radar only to find the most extreme part of the storm was being hidden. Do you have any real world experience when it comes to wx radar?Now lets take a look at who could of been on the flightdeck (No not al Qaeda) It is highly probable the captain would have retired after TOC and left a FO and Senior FO to handle the cruise, it is common practice with every airline I have been involved with in the past. Eleven years ago I lost a close friend due to a F/O allowing a Captain to fly a fully serviceable A320 into the ocean after a botched go around.The Captain wrongly believed the aircraft was still climbing despite the GPWS warnings and PFD displaying 15 degrees nose down. Instead he applied full forward sidestick and killed everyone aboard, the FO said nothing throughout the whole screw up. If it was not for the FDR & CVR I'm sure a lot of people would be shouting terrorism.That tragedy was a classic case of spatial disorientation, however my point is humans screw up and if you are a commercial pilot as you claim then you should be able to understand that.What I would like to know is your theory on a hijack, why would you think the 'terrorists' onboard would wait for the aircraft to get near a thunderstorm and then take over? why not simply storm the flightdeck at any point, turn of the PRIMS & SECS and get the job done?

[David Roch 1,988]

Well, time for a lock guys.This thread is going south.