Microsoft, I don't think the avid flight simmer cares about the "History of flight"

[Guest Tim W]

Funny no-one's mentioned helicoptors in this thread. I have been getting really into mastering the heli lately, The very fact that it is very difficult to master the hover and landing the craft exactly where you want to is what makes it challenging for me. I am a commercial pilot with more than 25 years flying experience and sure, I like to hop into a 747 or a 767 and fly a FMC generated route on VATSIM now and again but I am finding lately that I am more often than not practising getting my heli control right as well as trying out other vintage stuff. I have most of Bill Lyon's creations and yes I do like flying my gliders in the thermals around Emma Field too.The point is that FS is exactly what you want it to be.RegardsTimBeta tester MAAM B-25 "Briefing time" (as well)

[Guest]

I'd be interested to know how many of the philistines in here who dislike flying 'older' aircraft, actually fly in real life. Maybe a passion for older aircraft comes with the integral knowledge that comes from flying firsthand. I'm not sure. Me, I'm ALMOST as happy fiddling with an Delco INS, or messing with an FMC, as I am flying a really classic bird...but not quite! I can't think of any aircraft that I WOULDN'T want to fly, be it in FS, or real life!Regards,Al Summers.

[3Green 80]

Looks like many people still enjoy all the good old flyers....I'm looking forward to FS2004 and found it very interesting reading everyone's posts. Thanks again for your responses, I hope no one got hurt feelings over this post.... As for me, If you can't beat them, join them.... I guess I'll have to learn how to fly all over again, in the "FLYER"Bye for now.. :-wavehttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/13386.jpg

[Guest]

An aeroplane is not a glider just because it's airspeed is slow. Ergo, the Wright flyer is not a glider.The whole point of gliding is to apply the skills of finesse flying by using a given height and speed to get to a certain point safely, to use thermals and up-currents and to land safely without an engine.If more people learned to glide, we would have better pilots. Gliding requires infinitely more finesse regarding basic flying skills, since long wing spans require sensitive use of rudder/stick coordination. Any pilot's inherent weaknesses will show up straight away in a glider. Rob Young

[TonyB 1]

Hey 3Green,I want to take a moment and compliment you on your ability to take input and even see new possibilities as this thread developed. I have found many things I did not like or had no interest in are only because I did not understand them well enough. Granted they may never become favorites, but at least I learn to appreciate different things or view points. It was great to see this approach from you. See you in the sky!Tony

[StoneC0ld 5]

>huh?>From seeing a few screenshots (where they look magnificent...)>you decide that the aircraft will be a step backwards?>Backwards from what? From the point of view that "most" flight simmers want the latest and greatest glass cockpit modern day jetliners and nobody wants any of the historic vintage planes that started the whole thing or achieved major milestones in aviation history. :-DBut, oh well..... MS can't please everybody.... :-/

[greggerm 312]

Microsoft isn't taking anything AWAY from us with the release of 2004... the FMC equipped birds we enjoy flying today will work under the new program tomorrow. Besides... do you think MS has the experience to create a high-fidelity systems simulation on the lines of the PIC/PSS/DF products? I certainly wouldn't count on their first attempt, that's for sure. Would we, as serious enthusiasts, even consider using the MS default aircraft (if they had fmc's) in leu of our beloved addons?! That's doubtful too.Aside from that, the "Century of Flight" references needed to be backed up in practice. The additional planes help the sim and it's core audience of CASUAL simmers experience the earlier eras of flight.I keep finding myself having to mention that the core audience for the simulator are not those of us who have much money and time invested in the hobby, but rather those very casual folks who would buy the program and might not even know about downloadable planes, scenery, or payware addons (other than the ones on the shelves of their computer store). You know you'll all buy it anyway... :)-Germ

[Guest Air1]

I am with you Frenchy, low and slow, no radio, VFR, seat of the pants,love it.Steve

[Guest jordan]

There are several factors involved, and they have come together at a single point in time. I think the following three are the primary motivators for the product. Just an opinion.1. MarketingMicrosoft is trying to reach the rest of the market that is of a slightly older age. They know this market exists, and is willing to buy, because the demographics from their Combat Flight Simulator products show that it has been popular with the more senior flight-sim community members. Train Simulator is another shining example of reaching out to this healthy market. 2. Timing, Historical ReasonsThe 100th anniversary of flight is soon to be upon us. This means with the proper packaging, this software will get lots of free press and will lead right back to #1, reaching the rest of the older market.3. Legal and LicensingCreating models and flight dynamics for these older aircraft does not require the red-tape that including the newer aircraft and systems does. Microsoft doesn't include Cessna's without a fairly hefty agreement with that company. Companies now days are very sensitive to the use of their designs in high quality games and simulators. There is a lot of exposure to risk, and quite often the design of a new aircraft is an Internationally registered trademark in itself.

[Chris Willis 8]

Hi Tom,"Why should they divert time and energy away from improving the FS environment to create a 747 when the free/payware developers will roll out a far superior version a few months down the line"There is a ALOT of time the team spend for the 3rd party compability from previous version, this is really slow down the production. ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

[Guest dcc]

I consider myself to be a pretty avid flight simmer, and I fly almost exclusively WWII planes in FS2002, thus I enjoy vintage craft. I have yet to even fly the learjet, B747, or B737 in fs2002 (I tried to taxi in the B777 and gave up!) I for one am quite happy to see the vintage planes in the sim and look forward to many hours of flying by the seat of my virtual pants. - dcc

[Guest Andrew]

I flew the MSFS2002 default glider for about a hour, as I just did,nt like the fact that I could not ridge/thermal sour like I did in Flight Unlimited 3.In flight unlimited,s motor glider I could get up to say 5000ft and turn the engine off, then sour for hours on end, using the updrafts and (not so usefull) downdrafts and thermals, and I spent mounths perfecting my skills.then I moved to FS2000/2002If MSFS was more real in terms of dynamic winds (updrafts and thermals) then I would fly the default glider and other downloadable ones. As it stands there is nothing to learn about gliders in FS2002, that I did not learn in Flight Unlimited 3.I am an FMC/glass cockpit man myself at heart, I love complex aircraft, ,and own most big name add-ons (PSS747-777-AirbusA320/Wilcopubs ,A320PIC,(my fav airliner addon), 767PIC and assorted others), but some times I just cant find the energy to program an FMC after a long days work, so I go back to the default Cessna ,some real weather and just cruise.Andrew ,Banbury UK

[Guest]

Totally agree with you Tony. I only fly the default planes when it has just been released. Once the freeware developers start to work their magic, the default aircraft get ignored. Long live the likes of David Maltby, Rick Piper, Barry Blaisdell, POSKY, The Dash-7 people, Mike Stone, Oleksiy Frolov - the list is endless. I thank all freeware designers who contribute to my (and others) enjoyment of MS Flight Simulator for no reward except the thanks of flight simmers everywhere.

[Guest Pardue802]

I've never really had any luck with add on aircraft. Most of them have "inconsistencies" with the rest of the sim that make them stick out like sore thumbs (payware not as bad as freeware). As such, I've never been able to really get in and experience any vintage aircraft. I'm looking forward very much to the vintage aircraft to be included in FS-ACoF, as well as the environmental and ATC improvements.Not a step back in the slightest, and the variety appeals to very much to myself, whom I consider to be an avid flight simmer.Kenneth

[Guest]

I just have to jump in here! I am 53 and my Father will be 84 in July. He got his "first" computer when he was about 75 or so. At the time I didn't have a home computer but did use one at work! I thought it would be a good idea to get my Father MsFs/95 as a bit of a diversion while learning to use his computer? At the same time I was not familiar with Flight simming either! ...Now after, MSFS 95/98/2000 and now 2002pro we both enjoy this terrific hobby. The learning curve is huge yes but, we spend a lot of time on line flying around our part of the world. I don't think we have communicated as much or as well since we have both taken up Simming! Dad belongs to a seniors centre (55 & up) and they have a club where other seniors can join and learn about this great hobby. Regardless of your aircraft preference; we all get back an awful lot! Just look at the people you've met.Mark