Hi again,Yes, the situation is certainly complicated. The Burj tower is just an example - and really besides the point now, as I mentioned the problem to the scenery developer and he, knowing of the new Burj Tower representation that is available, has kindly sent me a bgl of his Dubai scenery minus the (now duplicate) tower, so now I only have one.The point of this thread now of course is that I (and hence others who read this thread) can benefit from the experience of those who have a greater depth of knowledge of these issues than do I - it is frustrating for me to be making scenery (and quite a bit of my stuff is on AVSIM) but still not be able to get FS9 excludes to work properly!! I feel at quite a disadvantage!Here is a summary of what I have donme since my last post:1. Using the original bgl, with tower, of course, I made an exclusion around the whole area using ExcBuilderV. I named the file z_Exc.bgl and put it into the OMDB/scenery folder. Restart FS - both towers still there.2. Moved the file to an active scenery folder higher up the library (yes, I know about the terrain mesh anomaly - did quite a bit of testing with Justin at FSGenesis of his beta mesh files a few years back). Oddly the new tower disappears, but the old one is still there. Can't imagine why the exclude would work on one bgl file and not the other. The xml is this:<?xml version="1.0"?><FSData version = "9.0" xmlns:xsi='http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance' xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd" > <ExclusionRectangle latitudeMinimum = "25.194301202505" latitudeMaximum = "25.1997367954904" longitudeMinimum = "55.2697977197533" longitudeMaximum = "55.2753565503396" excludeAllObjects = "TRUE" /></FSData>The other, to me more much important point (because it will apply to my projects in the future rather than this one-off annoyance of two Burj towers), is that when I disassemble an FS9 bgl file and end up with a small xml file and a series of models, how to proceed from there - how to reassemble those parts to an edited, working bgl. Maybe it can't be done and only the developer can do that from his own source material?Martin :-)"Moved the file to an active scenery folder higher up the library"I mean my exclude bgl of course..

Hi Martin:Glad to see you were able to get such helpful customer service from the developer of the original Dubai scenery package allowing use of that scenery with the new Burj Tower instead of his own Burj Tower object ! :( Hopefully the developer would be so kind as to post that update on his website (in a download area with access limited to registered owners of the original FS9 Dubai package), and thus others can be saved the same efforts we have gone through here as they discover and try to use the newer high detail Burj Tower in their Dubai scenery.And if you'd be so kind as to tell me what the file name is for the "BGL" that fixed the problem, and what the filename of the original BGL was before the developer re-issued it to get rid of the "irremovable" Burj Tower, I'd be curious as to whether we can bring this inquiry to a more helpful conclusion for all who read this thread in the future.Specifically, setting aside the IMHO unnecessary paucity of details as to developer, package, and file names, are we talking about FLYTAMPA LEGACY - DUBAI INTL OMDB/DBX (FS2004 NOT FSX) as the source of the only other Burj Tower beside the Burj Tower from Downtown Scenery Development for Flight Simulator (aka "DSDG") ? :( If so, what is that original scenery object BGL filename from Fly Tampa's FS9 Dubai package containing that (previously irremovable) Burj tower?And if that is the package we're dealing with for the original tower, what name has been given to the "updated" version of that BGL which now removes the Burj Tower ?Did the developer state whether he removed the object itself from the scenery object library (or object placement) BGL, or did he send you some new "magical exclude BGL" that does what we have thus far been unable to do by excluding the Burj Tower object ?I had planned to see if the Burj Tower object is in the demo on the Fly Tampa website for my testing; your further disclosure here could possibly save some time if one will not be able to access the same Burj Tower object from the demo as one would via the full purchased FLYTAMPA LEGACY - DUBAI INTL OMDB/DBX (FS2004 NOT FSX) package. :( Regarding your decompiled FS scenery object files, if you read the FSDeveloper "wiki" I linked to above, you will find that Library Creator XML 2.0.2 is likely to let you do what you wish with the decompiled FS9 scenery library object files. B) The caveat would be that, some say, without permission from the author of those libraries, one should NOT decompile files in general (except of course, IMHO, for learning and troubleshooting purposes only on one's own system !)And one should not ordinarily release any re-compiled "public domain" FS scenery object libraries outside one's own computer for other users to access, regardless of whether author permission is granted, and whether such a re-compiled library is distributed as freeware or payware, since the reconstituting of libraries ends up complicating FS operations with duplicate objects and GUIDs.In some cases such object and GUID duplication can lead to a substantial detrimental impact on FS performance.You mght find this thread interesting from the standpoint of what happens when "scenery object library overkill" is unleashed on one's system (one of my own problematic scenarios I have yet to resolve !) :http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthrea...ighlight=GaryGBHopefully we can identify some conclusions for learning purposes in this thread that will help us and others to better understand how to prevent and / or troubleshoot such object exclusion scenarios in the future; with your continued input I anticipate we will be better able to do so. B) GaryGB

1. The developer in fact asked me to upload the file to flghtsim.com - not sure why he didn't want to do it himself. I said I wasn't too happy to do it as there was no reason for me to put my name to the file, even whilst giving him the credit: we'll see what he says.2. The new file (yes, FS9, not FSX), is just a replacement of the old one: sheikhzayedrd.bgl - now changed to sheikhzayedrd_NoBurj.bgl. It's quite a bit smaller than the older file, I assume he removed the Burj tower mdl - it's not an exclude file.3. As I mentioned earlier, this Burj tower scenery (there's a lot more than the tower in it) does not come with the FT Dubai airport, but is designed to go with it: file is ftdubaicityaptmods.zip on AVSIM4. Yes, I'll look at the FS Developer wiki - missed it before.5. No, I agree about respecting other people's work. But for my own use I do sometimes alter things when they do not fit with my setup (cause CTDs or whatever), but I keep it for myself unless the original author agrees I should share it (as has happened).M.

Hi Martin:Thanks for the reply !Although my schedule will now be tied up until Sunday, I do plan to take a further look at this scenario to see what consclusions we might share with others in this thread. :( So, just to clarify, 1 of the Burj Towers was from the freeware add-on "ftdubaicityaptmods", and the other Burj Tower was from the "Downtown Scenery Development for Flight Simulator (aka "DSDG") Burj Tower" package ? Was the FLYTAMPA LEGACY - DUBAI INTL OMDB/DBX (FS2004 NOT FSX) (payware or Demo) another part of the mix here, and if so, did it (or did it not) also provide the Burj Tower as an included object ?Thanks again for your kind further explanation prior to my delving into the actual object files on this coming Sunday. :( GaryGB

A scenery file that contains objects will de-compile to an xml file and the MDL (model) files: - the xml file is a list of the MDL files and, optionally, the placement information for them (coordinates, complexity setting, etc.) - the MDL files are the objects themselves, the vertices with their draw calls, that are produced by the gMax game packs.To re-compile, simply place the xml file and the MDL files in the same directory as BGLComp and drag the xml file on top of BGLComp. This will create a new bgl containing the objects listed in the xml file.Before re-compiling, it is possible to modify the xml file, for example by changing coordinates, complexity, or even by removing an object from the list. The resulting bgl file will reflect those changes.Best regards.Luis

Luis.. that's just the information I was looking for!! I'll try it out ASAP - I can hardly believe it's that easy and that it will actually work, but I do know by now that you know what you are talking about in this forum (and quite probably outside of it too!! ;-) ).Gary, that's right re. the two scenery packages. I don't think the FT Dubai scenery contains any buildings outside the airport at all. Certainly the two towers come from those two sceneries, and there isn't a third on show! The file add-on "ftdubaicityaptmods" works whether you have FT Dubai OMDB or not , but one of the install options, as far as I recall, is to state whether you have the FT airport there or not, presumably the install varies depending upon that. Yes, be interesting to see what you get, 'cos in addition to (hopefully) being able to reassemble the xml & mdl files as Luis says, I would really like to know why my exc files behave so oddly (as I described yesterday - eliminating one tower but not the other), or not working at all. I am sure my syntax is OK.. We'll see.Martin

Hi Martin:Using NewBGLAnalyze I decompiled the SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL which is the custom FS scenery object library from the ftdubaicityaptmods.zip package.FYI: (DubaiGenericHiRise.BGL is an XML placement file for Generic type buildings, and was not contributory to this scenario).Since the slewed / top-down view coordinates for the Burj Tower apex / spire axis did not agree with the XML reference point placement coordinates listed in the decompiled SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL, another approach was needed to identify whether the reference point for the tower was offset due to inclusion of other buildings at the base of the visual model... inside the same 3D model file. :( I then opened the MDL files from SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL in Arno's ModelConverterX: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87Using the 3D Preview tab, I was able to see that SHEIKHZAYEDRD_04.mdl consisted of 6 small buildings in addition to the Burj Tower, therefore the reference point for that model is offset from that of the Burj Tower itself.This would mean that in order to successfully exclude the Burj Tower and the other small buildings at its base (which are all a part of that same model), both the size and location of one's Exclude Rectangle would need to be adjusted to intercept and enclose the reference point... which lies "between" the coordinates for the Tower and those contiguous small buildings.The FSUIPC coordinates for the Burj Tower apex / spire axis from SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL are:E055 16.39159203966N025 11.805107660544The coordinates for the small building farthest (to the West) from the Burj Tower apex / spire axis (but a part of the same 3D model) are:E055 16.208223519318N025 11.72388249384Since this 3D model is placed with XML from a standard FS scenery object library, I believe that if you simply enlarge your exclude rectangle to capture both the Burj Tower and the 6 buildings to the West of its base in the FS world, you should intercept the reference point for that (1) model, and could then successfully cause the FS rendering engine to exclude that object when using the original version of the SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL.Although I have not yet seen a situation where an XML exclude failed to eradicate an object placed with XML from an FS scenery object library, I always look forward to learning more about new possibilities, including those that don't seem to fit with known rules in scenery design.And it's reasonable as well as generally prudent to keep one's exclude rectangles as small as possible when trying eliminate (1) building among others nearby. But, in this case, it seems likely we have another of those relatively rare and baffling scenarios where an "apparently offset reference point location" for a 3D model evades our exclude rectangle until we find out where to intercept it. :( Given the fact that there are a number of individual models placed along that roadway, it would not be unreasonable to initially assume that the Burj Tower might be the only building within its own 3D model.The only clue is the physical proximity of multiple buildings along that roadway, and of course the fact that a total (small) number of models written out upon decompilation must infer that there are multiple buildings in some or all of the 3D models used to compile the SHEIKHZAYEDRD.BGL FS scenery object library file to construct that scenery package.One can use progressively larger exclude rectangles as a quick way to test; when that doesn't work, one then must dig inside files. :( I will leave it to you to construct a modified exclude rectangle and experience the satisfaction of having "cracked this problem" by successfully excluding the duplicate Burj Tower from the (original) ftdubaicityaptmods.zip package; please let us know how this works for you, and whether further inquiry is needed into your Dubai area file configuration. B) PS: Many thanks to Arno for yet another time-saving, helpful application of his troubleshooting tools to keep the FS Developer Community thriving !Hope this helps ! B) GaryGB

Hi. I am going abroad at the beginning of this week, just for a week, so I may not get round to looking at this until I get back - but I will do so of course!Thanks,Martin

Well, back in the U.K., and my Flightsim....Yes, I get that. I didn't know about the reference points - that seems to make excludes a bit more complex than I had imagined, and explains why some excludes I have made in the past didn't work, but at least I can now disassemble and reconstruct FS9 bgl scenery files properly (clearly, it is a lot easier to remove the mdl file and the reference to it in the xml file than to try to exclude it)!Will have a look at ModelConverterX - this can be used for FS9 as well as FSX?? (I am not sure if FS9 mdl files substantially differ from FSX mdl files?).Martin

Well, back in the U.K., and my Flightsim....Yes, I get that. I didn't know about the reference points - that seems to make excludes a bit more complex than I had imagined, and explains why some excludes I have made in the past didn't work, but at least I can now disassemble and reconstruct FS9 bgl scenery files properly (clearly, it is a lot easier to remove the mdl file and the reference to it in the xml file than to try to exclude it)!Will have a look at ModelConverterX - this can be used for FS9 as well as FSX?? (I am not sure if FS9 mdl files substantially differ from FSX mdl files?).Martin

Hi Martin:I believe that Arno's initial emphasis for ModelConverterX is on output to the FSX environment, but many are hoping he will also offer conversion output of APIs and other SCASM-coded FS8 legacy BGLs into the FS2004 (FS9) environment... it may already offer this (in the current development version rather than the versioin 1.0 release). :( I'll bet there some who would further appreciate having a FSX TO FS2004 conversion direction option as well... I know I certainly would ! :(GaryGB

Yes, count me in too!M.I'll bet there some who would further appreciate having a FSX TO FS2004 conversion direction option as well... I know I certainly would ! :(GaryGB