PMDG 737 is it worth it?

[michal 44]

PMDG seem very honest about the bugs and are willing to face them head on - this is very encouraging and worthy of our support.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[Guest]

ArkLight"I don't have it (read yet) but despite its current issues it sure is causing a stir in the community in a positive way."And what basic facts would they be?Hearsay?I suggest that you mind your attitude and when you have plunked down the 40 and know what this product is firsthand you would then have the credibility of stating how you feel about it.The fact that you think that hearsay is reason to post about is ridiculous but par for the course I guess.

[Guest]

MichaelIt`s funny but I hear the same words everytime a new addon is released.When will it be time for us to download a payware addon and be confident that it will be close to being right the first out?It`s attitudes like yours that do nothing to pressure developers to improve release quality.I`m not looking for 100% bugfree software but for God`s sake it needs to be closer than what I`ve been seeing lately.Also the fact that people that don`t even own the addons insist on giving their two cents that cloud the waters even more do nothing to improve the situation and quite possibly are providing a disservice to their fellow simmers.

[PilotGW 1]

Hi all,Well i'm considering buying the PMDG 737 but before I do I would like to ask a really stupid question: Is it worth the money? :-hmmmAlso before I buy it what happened to the Easyjet Livery link on the PMDG site? At the moment its not a link just plain text. Thankyou to all who reply. :)The gregster has landed! :-wave

[michal 44]

>It`s attitudes like yours that do nothing to pressure>developers to improve release quality.Perhaps you are over-reacting slightly? On one hand one has to be a bit shocked at the number of bugs (where were those 'qualified' beta-testers ??) on the other it is refreshing to hear them admit there is a problem. Believe me, I have seen quite a few vendors in the past telling customers there was absolutely nothing wrong with their product despite obvious issues - and this is when it gets really frustrating.Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

[Tabs 2,790]

This is going to be a wonderful and beautiful addition to FS just as soon as the few major bugs are worked out. I've had nothing but positively great support from the two team members I've talked to the most, Anthony (FMC) and Vangelis (FDE). They readily admit that the bugs got through testing somehow and the American members of the team didn't even stop answering questions and working on the patch for the 4th of July - that's dedication and they have my confidence that this plane will be made completely right before long.As others have said, the FDE is amazing. After spending the weekend messing around with it, I think I'm pretty much prepared to say that they have beaten 767PIC in this department - it feels very solid, yet responds to small corrections, trims very easily, rudder authority is great, engine spool times are very realistic as is the takeoff and stopping distances - all within a very small margin of the actual published Boeing specs. Vangelis actually has a PhD in fluid dynamics and really understands in detail all the forces at work on the airplane.The cockpit gauges are extremely smooth and are in the same class as Reality XP's gauges on the Flight1 Piper Meridian. Absolutely amazing to look at, and the NG's are even adjustable as to the internal framerate they're running at.If you're concerned about some of the bugs, then simply wait a few weeks to buy it and it'll all be fixed. If not, I have no reservations in recommending it now.Ryan

[Arklight1 140]

>ArkLight>>"I don't have it (read yet) but despite its current issues it>sure is causing a stir in the community in a positive way.">>And what basic facts would they be?Hearsay?>>I suggest that you mind your attitude and when you have>plunked down the 40 and know what this product is firsthand>you would then have the credibility of stating how you feel>about it.>The fact that you think that hearsay is reason to post about>is ridiculous but par for the course I guess.>Hearsay? Go into the screenshots forum...look at all the pictures, there is obviously quite few people who like the product, even with the issues that are currently present. PMDG has stated that they are working on getting the bugsd ironed out....so IMO it really isn't an issue. Problems have been identified and problems are being addressed. So what is your problem?I was commenting on the visual appearance of the product. I can do that right? I do have the gift of vision. Or do my own two eyes constitute "hearsay"?I didn't say, "the FDE is great!! at least I heard it is!". If I think something looks good then I have the right to say so. I can see screenshots just as well as anybody else. If you dislike it so much then why don't you ask for a refund?I guess your attitude is "par for the course", figures.

[Guest]

It is worth every cent I paid. The FDE is outta this world, she is a dream to hand fly. The detail but in the plane is top notch. This is probably the only plane/panel combo that are both excellent. Of course there are some problems but they will soon be fixed with the patch due the 19th of this month. If you are deciding wether or not to get it I wouldn't wait to long because the price now is suppost to be a "discounted" price and will later it will be more expensive.

[Guest]

>It`s funny but I hear the same words everytime a new addon is released.When will it be time for us to download a payware addon and be confident that it will be close to being right the first out?

[Wilson 2]

>This addon is not a toy, it is a sophisticated,complex>addition to the sim world which by its nature is bound to have>ongoing development so give it and its developers some slack>;-)>>Peter>>Peter,I think this is the very attitude that he was complaining about. Should one have to pay for software that everyone agrees will have "ongoing development"?!These folks are used to producing software for Fly! fans -- a very forgiving, technically oriented group. I used to be part of that group and bought their software. However, by their own admission in their forum here, they are not used to dealing with the volume of the FS2k2 community.This is not just a problem with this development group, but with the software publishing industry in general, I think. They have taught us to EXPECT bug fixes and corrections for sloppy, half-baked work. Would you find it acceptable that a new automobile that you purchased worked "most of the time", and will work all of the time in just a few weeks or months? After all, it is a very complex piece of machinery. Would you give Ford, Cheverolet, Mercedes or BMW "slack"? Neither BMW nor these guys deserve "slack", any more than your neighborhood cardio-thoracic surgeon deserves slack.Oh, it is the PRICE that makes the difference? So that means that your coffee maker should make lousy coffee part of the time and your toaster should burn the toast until the bugs are worked out? Let's give Sunbeam and Braun some slack, right?No, these guys should not be singled out and pot shots made at them. They have simply been part of an evolutionary process. The whole software industry attitude needs to updated from the 70's perspective, when they could afford to be arrogant because no one understood how computers worked, let alone knew how to challenge the quality of their sofware.Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your passive attitude of "give them some slack".It should be right the first time. Updates for payware should be enhancements, not corrections for things done wrong or not at all.(Geez, somebody knock me off of my soapbox :-) )Wilson

[Guest Ken_Salter]

Cars have a lot more R&D put into it, and are a matter of life and death.The last time I checked, flight sims (or commercial software in general) do not get near this amount of R&D and are not capable of being life threatning (note that I said general comericial software. Software/firmware running in cars, planes, 911 emergency systems, etc. are not included here).Even the major Operating Systems (including Linux/Unix) are buggy. Are you going to stop buying them?Most development houses strive to cover all possible scenarios. But when you are working on a project as complex as the PMDG with the limited resources (time, money, and man power) then bugs will be part of the release. It is inevitable. I know, because I am a developer and help run the R&D dept of a hardware/software manufacturer. Trust me, I don't like bugs in MY software any more that the users. But they happen.Speaking of arrogance, sounds like the arrogance shifted to the users - gimme everything now and pefect! or I'll go get an illegal copy, complain anyway while not paying a dime.It should be perfect the first time - that would be nice. It will be perfect the first time - probably not. My 2/100th. Thanks for reading...

[Arklight1 140]

>>This addon is not a toy, it is a sophisticated,complex>>addition to the sim world which by its nature is bound to>have>>ongoing development so give it and its developers some slack>>;-)>>>>Peter>>>>>>Peter,>>I think this is the very attitude that he was complaining>about. Should one have to pay for software that everyone>agrees will have "ongoing development"?!>>These folks are used to producing software for Fly! fans -- a>very forgiving, technically oriented group. I used to be part>of that group and bought their software. However, by their>own admission in their forum here, they are not used to>dealing with the volume of the FS2k2 community.>>This is not just a problem with this development group, but>with the software publishing industry in general, I think. >They have taught us to EXPECT bug fixes and corrections for>sloppy, half-baked work. >>Would you find it acceptable that a new automobile that you>purchased worked "most of the time", and will work all of the>time in just a few weeks or months? After all, it is a very>complex piece of machinery. Would you give Ford, Cheverolet,>Mercedes or BMW "slack"? Neither BMW nor these guys deserve>"slack", any more than your neighborhood cardio-thoracic>surgeon deserves slack.>>Oh, it is the PRICE that makes the difference? So that means>that your coffee maker should make lousy coffee part of the>time and your toaster should burn the toast until the bugs are>worked out? Let's give Sunbeam and Braun some slack, right?>>No, these guys should not be singled out and pot shots made at>them. They have simply been part of an evolutionary process. >The whole software industry attitude needs to updated from the>70's perspective, when they could afford to be arrogant>because no one understood how computers worked, let alone knew>how to challenge the quality of their sofware.>>Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your passive attitude>of "give them some slack".>>It should be right the first time. Updates for payware should>be enhancements, not corrections for things done wrong or not>at all.>>(Geez, somebody knock me off of my soapbox :-) )>>WilsonSome of the problems like the memory leak should have nevermade it out of Beta I suppose, but besides that you can't expect ANY piece of software to function the EXACT same way on every computer configuration. Expecting that is ridiculous.And nothing is perfect the first time. If it was then there would be no FS2004.At least the PMDG guys admit the mistakes and pledge to fix them...that's a lot better then some payware groups I have dealt with in the past.If somebody finds a product "questionable" then they shouldn't buy it, if they buy it and don't like it then they should request a refund.And the reason the software industry is this way is becuase if they beta tested until everything was perfect then by the time the product was released (if it ever was) then it would be considered obsolete. The development teams of software companies don't set the release date in case you didn't know. Payware groups for FS are a lot different then software manufaturers creating business aps and such. Comparing the two is ridiculous.Just about everyone knew that this is PMDGs first FS2002 Gmax aircraft, especially you since you came from the FLY community. Knowing that this was thier first FS creation, and also knowing the complexity of a product like this, why did you purchase it? Why not wait a day/week/month to purchase and see if it had issues at release? I think a lot of people are frustrated because they ran out and bought it without waiting and ended up spending thier hard earned money of something that didn't work perfectly "out fo the box". They want it fixed, and they want it fixed NOW. Of course PMDG can't just create a "super patch" and send it out an hour after release but I think some people expect them too :-lol It takes time as most of us know I'm sure. Those who don't understand this need to find a new hobby.All I'm saying is that if people didn't have the patience to wait for the initial reports on the product I fail to see how that is PMDGs fault. The product is released, it has bugs, the bugs will hopefully be addressed. What more can you ask for? You say you don't want to cut them any slack.....ok, how about they just throw a patch together and get it out the door. If it doesn't correct all the bugs that the community demanded be squashed ASAP is it still thier fault or is it the fault of the people who wouldn't give them the time prepare a more stable, tested patch? I was worried about the nose shape so I asked somebody to please post some side pics for me. They graciously did and now I can make an informed decision on my choice to purchase. Easy. And it didn't cost me $40 to do so.People are like software producers, they demand things get done NOW and when they are and not completely bug free it is the developers fault.I'm not saying that I think it is ok to release software in a state where most people will have issues with it, but when it is, complaining about it after the fact isn't going to rewind time and get it done right the first time. It all comes down to whether or not you trust PMDG to "get it done". If you do, great, if you don't, then don't buy thier add-on.:)I hope that stuff above makes sense...I only had about an hour of sleep last night :-lol

[michal 44]

>It should be perfect the first time - that would be nice. It>will be perfect the first time - probably not. Such perfection though hard to achieve is nevertheless possible. You simply ought to have a real life pilot rated on the aircraft being active participant on the team. Not just someone who decorates the list with his name but someone intimately engaged in the product. Someone like Eric on the 767PIC team. Then you get magical results. I think such magic could be achieved if PMDG decides to go for J-41. I frankly am sceptical on someone ever repeating PIC's incredible success and doing it all from the "books" so to speak.Michael J.

[gregger 0]

Hey, I agree with you man... Some of the problems in this release have me scratching my head wondering how this one and that one slipped by the beta team... Unfortunately this isn't the only FS add-on released like this. I too would love to see more products come out that don't have serious issues (small ones are fine).... maybe it's wishful thinking.Ghttp://members.rogers.com/gmoffatt/images/ERJ_CRT.jpg

[Guest]

ArkLightWell if looking at pictures enables you to reccomend 40 dollar addons to fellow simmers go for it.I just feel that you are doing more harm than good.Also why don`t you find a quote from me that says anything about disliking or contemplating a refund.It`s so typical that you would say that or anything else for that matter that would enable you to escape the logic of my argument.I`ve seen it a million times before ArkLight and it makes me smile.