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Guest Stephan

FS2004: Stop illegal download, Be patient!

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All,I almost fell into this entire mess. I've been simming since my father came home with FS4 one day when I was 9 years old. I jumped on out 386 pc and started playing. Fell in love with the sim and even took the ATP route (great sceneries).Now I find myself investigating FS2004 downloading and had to say to myself, " What in the heck are you doing?" Sure, FS isn't coming out for a couple of weeks but it is worth the wait.I had to post this. TP

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Well done!!!, By downloading it your Punishing the community, and the Developers.Besides, nothing beats holding that band new box in your hands, and orignal disc.Jason

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I agree! while many won't share this view, I have no problem waiting for my pre order to get here. There are so many cons to d/l pirated software it just isn't an option for me! this is a great hooby, unfortunately there are a lot of negatives that keep showing their ugly faces, pirated software being one of them (we won't go into the others ;-), that's in another thread ).Regards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

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IMHO, the software companies will start distributing their own version of the pirate software on the p2p networks that will in fact be a virus of some type...like the RIAA is thinking about doing...Anyone read Neuromancer??? :-lol The Black ICE is coming...and you asked for it...http://saltydogfly2.avsim.net/images/avsim_sig.jpg

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>IMHO, the software companies will start distributing their>own version of the pirate software on the p2p networks that>will in fact be a virus of some type...like the RIAA is>thinking about doing...>>Anyone read Neuromancer??? :-lol The Black ICE is>coming...and you asked for it...>>http://saltydogfly2.avsim.net/images/avsim_sig.jpgIt's already happening. Some artists release false MP3's of their music on the internet.

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I wasn't going to buy COF but I have noticed in a lot of screenshots they have the purchased addons that I have, and they seem to work real well, so I will give it a shot. And like you and everyone should, I will wait until it is in my local store and pay the money for it.

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Hi, "I wasn't going to buy COF but I have noticed in a lot of screenshots they have the purchased addons that I have"They are always compatible in each Msfs version, this have been the history from Msfs compatibility at least for two version. If they not works, they will be updaded for fs2004. Anyways you will see most downloaded files will be from these exclusive fs2004 files or fs2004 update and you will start to delete fs2002 files, authors will re- uploaded their files for fs2004 with new stuff inside, like every version.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Hi, "Now I find myself investigating FS2004 downloading and had to say to myself, " What in the heck are you doing?" Sure, FS isn't coming out for a couple of weeks but it is worth the wait."You will be amaze about this one, I receive email from people that's have the leaked version, bought the leaked version eveen worst or saw it from their freind, and ask me question and various thing about the fs2004 setting recomendation etc. These are all crap piracy things, I read here and here from various web site totally crap. For those that's are in these group, no matter who you are, Yes you are in the exclusive BS community and not in Flight Sim community!ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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I will be proud to pay for my version of COF and pay those that work so hard to bring me the software that I enjoy, as I do with everything that I acquire. To those that don't pay, well that is theft and they belong in prison....period. I don't care what your percieved reasoning is, you are a thief. And to those that do steal software, just think that someday you or maybe someone you care about could be laid off from their jobs because the company can not afford to pay it's employees because you and many others do not think that you should pay for their products. That is just one way that theft may impact you. TP I applaud your decision as I would like to get my hands on COF early too but I try to be an honest man so I will wait like you. I will be proud to get my new box and disks the legal way! Sorry for being so negative but I have a real problem with this mentality that many have. Thanks, Philip

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Tim,I would bet there are a whole lot of people who've entertained the same thoughts as you. The whole piracy underground has been around for years. But I think three factors came together to seduce a community who never would have considered visiting a pirate site.1. MS did a great job of involving numerous members FS community in the testing and marketing of FS2004. But by foolishly lifting the NDA six weeks before the commercial release, literally dozens of members of our community are posting screenshots and answering questions about the program. The community is already whipped into a frenzy about aprogram that wouldn't hit the shelf for a month and a half. 2. Flight simmers are notoriously impatient. We hound endlessly hound developers for release dates. We all act like childrenaround Christmas whenever something is about to be released. For many,it's hard to get into FS2002 with a new version pending. Some will go to any lenghts to get what they want. (Remember the PIC patch prematurely being downloaded from a development website that got leaked a few years ago) 3.Broadband internet makes it very easy to download a 4 CD program in a couple of hours.It's common knowledge they timed the release to coincide with Oshkosh. Naturally they went gold in plenty of time to ensure sufficient quantities were available. Based on previous releases, it seems they could have gotten this product on the shelves within 3-4 weeks of going gold. Hindsight being 20/20, they could have accomplished the same marketing effect if the NDA was lifted 2-3 weeks ahead of release date. This could have whetted the appetite of the community without feeling the release date was far enough away to entertain alternate methods of getting the program.The result is a current perception of "haves" and "have nots." The people who don't have the program are begging for crumbs from the people who have the program. It's a fertile ground for certain people to download the program to be "in the know" and show off they have the program.The hardcore piracy group who have no intention of buying the rogram has always been there, but I think there is a lure for a lot of people to download a pirated version with every intention of buying it the second it hits the shelf.Personally, my excitement for FS2004 has diminished. When the NDA was originally lifted, I wanted all the details I could get. But it quickly got to the point where I tired of hearing all the cool details about a program that's sitting in a box in a warehouse 3 weeks from seeing the light of day. I'm seriously considering throwing my limited PC time into an entirely different game (something totally different like GTA:Vice City) and save my excitement for when the product actually comes out.EdPS - I'm also getting a laugh at the Chicken Little posts from gold version owners regarding the dangers of hacked FS2004.exe files. How many of these folks happily used the FS2000 no-CD crack file developed by pirates and hackers, but justified it by saying they owned the program?

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"1. MS did a great job of involving numerous members FS community in the testing and marketing of FS2004. But by foolishly lifting the NDA six weeks before the commercial release, literally dozens of members of our community are posting screenshots and answering questions about the program. The community is already whipped into a frenzy about aprogram that wouldn't hit the shelf for a month and a half."Actually, I think it was clever, it took a willing audience to take a great looking product and secure a buying base. Those who were sitting on the fence now are eagerly waiting to purchase, probably most due to the screenshots that have shown up.Lobaeux

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>Actually, I think it was clever, it took a willing audience to>take a great looking product and secure a buying base. Those>who were sitting on the fence now are eagerly waiting to>purchase, probably most due to the screenshots that have shown>up.>>Lobaeux>The screenshots have definitely secured MS my $55, I can say that for sure. Personally, I too think that lifting the NDA so early is a good marketing idea. And who knows, the early lifting could have simply just been an experiment by them, as well.

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"The result is a current perception of "haves" and "have nots" and "But by foolishly lifting the NDA six weeks before the commercial release, literally dozens of members of our community are posting screenshots and answering questions about the program"Sorry to answer this way but I can't be but hurt by your post.As a beta tester not only have we spent hours testing aspects of the program-but spent hours getting information out to our fellow flight simmers-who have been asking. This is time consuming and hard work-and we don't get paid to do it. It is not foolish on anyone's part-it is a service given freely to good,legitimate law abiding people who love flight simming .I actually would prefer to enjoy using fs2004 in silence (which I haven't had much time to do yet do to all the questions being asked, and running beta tests) but instead have taken quite a bit of my time to try to answer enthusiasts' questions to the best of my knowledge.Pirating is stealing-it is that simple. It is not Microsoft's fault, nor is it the beta testers fault-it is the criminals' fault that do this practice! But then again, being in my age group I happen to believe in personal responsibilty......http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/Geofdog2.jpg

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Don't get me wrong, I didn't think lifting the NDA prior to release (or making it available to many in the community) was the poor part of the decision. I only question doing it 6-7 weeks out instead of 2-3 weeks. The program went gold in mid June. The FS sites/3rd party developers still could have received their gold copies to write reviews/ensure 3rd party compatability etc. If the NDA was lifted July 8, there would have been plenty of time to drum up excitement but not enough time to may piracy a viable option to those who normally wouldn't consider it. (And beleive me, I bet there are a whole lot of people not as open as Tim who've at least looked into the option.) As it is, the forums on the 3 major sites are constantly filtering illegal content and posts about how to obtain pirated copies.One other thing to consider is the overall quality of the program. This marketing approach works mainly because the program (at least according to those in the know) is very good. While FS2002 was solid out of the box, the same couldn't be true for previous versions. This approach never would have worked with FS2000 - as many of the beta testers grumbled that it contained many bugs they had identified in testing and the program performed poorly on even the top notch systems at release. Some very upstanding people wanted to boycott FS98. ;) And who could forget the Compuserve battles over FS95 and FS5. Microsoft deserves huge kudos for listening to their customers and really developing a bang up product - especially for a niche where they don't have any major competition.I just hate to piracy of the entire program get the pub it's been getting the last few weeks.Ed KDFW

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Geof,Again, the foolish part was the marketing decision to lift the NDA so early that it encouraged the promotion of the pirated versions of the program. If I was a programmer I would want my work to be promoted effectively and believe using the community to do so is very smart. But at the same time, I would want to maximize the promotion of the program while minimizing risk. The closer you get to commercial release, the less likely someone is to be tempted to "jump the gun" and get a pirated version. This was not an indictment of anyone who has legimately shared information with the community. Once the NDA was released, everyone was encouraged to share information. I understand what you are saying about unglamorous work of beta testing. While I haven't beta tested a major release, I have written many reviews for this site. Getting an advance copy of software is not nearly as exciting as it sounds when you are pouring hours into studying, testing and documenting your results. ;-)ed

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Geof,I don't support or condone piracy, nor do I put blame on the victim for a crime.However, that doesn't stop me from locking my car door and turning the burgular alarm on my home. Unfortunately we live in a society where we need to mitigate our risk. And IMVHO, I think this one decision (in the midst of several good marketing decisions) raised the profile of the dirty piracy element to our community. I bet you cash money Tim (sorry to use him as an example) would have never even fathomed downloaded FS if the whole issue of FS2004 being available on pirated software sites hadn't been a hot topic. And I'm sure he's not alone.ed

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The lifting of the NDA has nothing to do with the availability of the pirated version(s) out there. For FS2002 we didn't get our copies until some weeks after the retail release, however pirated versions of the betas were available prior to the release.There are always some who just have to go against whats right and good, sad fact of life these days. I am thankful the NDA was lifted earlier and we got our copies prior to the release.

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>Geof,>>Again, the foolish part was the marketing decision to lift the>NDA so early that it encouraged the promotion of the pirated>versions of the program. I absolutely see zero connection between pirated copies and timing of NDA. If someone wants to steal he is not going to wait for NDA to be lifted. Use your br*in ...Michael J.http://www.reality-xp.com/community/nr/rsc/rxp-higher.jpg

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Ed, "Again, the foolish part was the marketing decision to lift the>NDA so early that it encouraged"There is absolutely no relation between the lifted NDA and Piracy, remember at fs2002 time, the beta was available way before the gold version was finished. Also there is good chance that FSUIPC will not works with the leaked version.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Michael,I'm think I am using my brain, and I'm sorry if you misinterpreted what I said. For the 3rd time.1. I fully support releasing the gold version early to 3rd party designers/beta testers. It's good marketing to drum up interest and it helps the FS community test 3rd party upgrades and helps FS sites write timely reviews. I know - I wrote two parts of the FS2002 review for this site after the product had hit the shelves. While I was proud of my work, I know it could have been much more comprehensive if I had more time to write it.2. I said from the begining there has always been piracy and there is an element that would always download it for free regardless. 3. The the connection between the NDA timing is that is let some people glamorize the fact they had the program and made some people who normally wouldn't consider downloading a pirated copy download it. (Like the original poster) I'm sure every version of FS has been pirated, but didn't get the publicity in our community because the commericial release was imminent or it had already been released.I never said it shouldn't have gone gold early. I never said the NDA shouldn't have been lifted early. And I never said either was the cause of piracy. It is my opinion that lifting the 6 weeks early (as opposed to 2-3) had the unintended consequence of encouraging some to download a pirated version and share the fact it was available. This made some consider illegally downloading the program instead of waiting. (see original post in the thread)BTW, disagree with me if you want Michael, but I don't appreciate the personal insult being thrown out.Ed

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